Correction required: The Palestinian flag is incorrectly referred to as an "Arab flag" in the photo caption "Alhambra Cinema boasting an Arab flag, 1937"
Pejorative language: The use of terms like "riot" vs. "rebellion" or "uprising" to refer only to (presumably Palestinian) Arab people reinforces the Orientalist racist stereotypes of Arabs as inherently violent people.
Please correct these errors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.58.79 (talk) 15:03, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
See comments regarding this at [1] IZAK 08:05, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#New "twist and turn" as "Hebrew alphabet" is switched to "Hebrew languages" concerning appropriate uses of the word "Hebrew" here. IZAK 05:33, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have never in my life seen in wikipedia so much Palestinian propaganda. Calling the jews who fought for Israel "Jewish terrorists" in a war that the arabs declared on the jews is direct propaganda and racism. Adding personal opinions in brackets doesn't make it ok, Wikipedia shouldn't have personal opinions. Telling half-truths and full lies is also unworthy. This article isn't about the Palestinian refugees and it should not give their full story especually not the parts outside Jaffa. Just like it doesn't have the story of how israelis fought the Palestinians outside of Jaffa, and it doesn't tell the story of the Jews that were murdered in the waves of pogroms and fled from Jaffa. Thus, I am removing those parts, leaving only what is a true known fact, and related to Jaffa.
Adding so much Palestinian propaganda as "data" on those years while all the other years have a few paragraphs, is very suspicious. I will remind you that this is not the place to start the arab-israeli issue again ! By wiki-laws, you should avoide' such issues unless they are needed and not use Wiki as your own personal place for your propaganda. If you cannot talk about the issue from both of it's sides, don't mention it. Many of the things written here have no historical fact, not in any Israeli refrences or outside refrences that I checked in(for example Encyclopædia Britannica), so I can only assume they came from unbased Palestinian sources or from the writer's own personal opinions. Every info added on such topics should be taken from nutral places such as Britannica.
Also, i will remind you that this topic is about Jaffa only, and not about the Palestinians living in it. This topic doesn't specific what happend to the jews that used to live in it and got kicked out, to the british who returned home, and it shouldn't be about the Palestinians outside of Jaffa either. I removed any Israeli or Palestinian propaganda issues, especually those who are not even related to the history of Jaffa, and with it a lot of untrue things that were presented as facts. If you want to restore or add it again, or add more things that are controversial and might be pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian, please avoide editing war and write here your resources for that material and talk about if that material is a true known fact and related to Jaffa. I hope you will be mature enough to do so.Maglanist- Um, didn't it start when Israel tried to take over Palestine? -
To Zero000, Don't change the facts here without checking if its true or not, Wikipedia should bring the truth, and not the opinions of extreme pro-palestinians, self-hating jews are the worst of them. The fact that you take intrest in history clearly doesn't make you it's judge.from your userpage i assume you read hebrew, so here is the Tel-Aviv-Yafo city-hall link that talks about that subject. if i am mistaking, tell me and i will try to find that webpage for you in english.
http://www.tel-aviv.gov.il/Hebrew/Cityhall/History/history01.asp
as you can see, those events happend prior to the british mandate on Israel, during the turkish time.
This page is clearly written mostly from one point of view, the Israeli or Zionist one . At http://PalestineRemembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/index.html are over 6 Oral History interviews (each over 250 minutes which you can listen) where Palestinian refugees recall their lives in Jaffa with great details. When you read this page, hardly you have mentioning of that Palestinians ever existed in Jaffa. On top of that, this page has quoted the mentions page without stating the reference, this is not ethical.
I urge you also to take the "riot" references to the Palestinian Intifada of 1936, this is an old Zionist propaganda that continues to paint Palestinians and Arabs as thugs and thieves. The uprising (or in Arabic Intifada) was politically motivated. The Palestinian striked for over 6 months with no-violence, resistance to the British Mandate intensified after wards. So this is a political struggle, and their is no political struggle absent from terror, violence, ..etc., but at the core it is a political issue.
I agree that the 1936 Palestinian uprising is not portrayed neutrally, but with a a strong anti-Arab bias.
The 1920s disturbances are also misrepresented. Especially the word "pogrom" should not be used since it implies the blessing of the government. In Palestine's case, the country was occupied by the British, who actually supported the Zionist Jews. The narrated history of the Mandate period also omits mention of Jewish attacks on Arab Palestinians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.166.42.42 (talk) 18:35, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Hi this is to warn the Wikipedia community that this page like many others have come to the attention of propagandists from Isreal who trawl wikipedia trying to change history. This page was reverted by one of their ilk.
The attempt here was to hide the fact that Jaffa was an Arab city before 1947 and there was ethnic clensing that occured here - There is a gang at wikipedia that has gone about changing several pages to suit the Zionist concept of history, we appeal to all netutral historians to monitor this page and defend it against these vandals
lalit Shastri
Any information that does not fit in with the zionist narrative is removed and replaced with problematic highly onesided information (often erroneous) which, even if some of it is sort of true, usually does not give the complete scope of information available, but only what fits nicely into the zionist narrative. It amuses me e.g. sometimes but mostly makes me feel sad and frustrated. why can both narratives not be told, add you info, open it up for discourse. It's funny that, when Israeli historians actually admit Jaffa was Jewish only during the short period of the kings and that Jaffa had a tiny Jewish community until the very late 19th century, the rewriters of historyb keep falsifying the information , trying to create the impression of a "jewish city". In addition, any inofrmation about the serious social problems faced by the majority of Jaffa's residents today, whether they are Palestinians or Jews, and whether they live in Al ajami, the central areas of Jaffa ("Lev Yafo") or Daled or Gimmel neighborhoods, these bits and pieces of information are smply wiped out, removed. If people don't agree, ok, say so, discuss it, but wiping out any info that does not fit the touristy image of disneyland old Jaffa? I thought stalinism was over. I have tried to add this information so often (i am a resident of al ajami and a community activist in Jaffa), that i've gotten tired.
I read the article unbelievably. From reading it, it seems that history in Jaffa started in 1947 (Oh yea, there is a line about a Napoleon’s massacre and reading on something about the crusades).
Jaffa has a very rich history (it was first mentioned by Egyptians in 1470 BC), including a very rich Arab history, but some of those that wrote the article have no real intention in writing an encyclopedia. They have a political agenda to push. So 50% of the article is devoted to the atrocities committed by the Jews in 1948 in Jaffa and elsewhere. And of course when someone intervenes he is a Zionist vandal and propagandist. I would love to write the full story, but reading the above comments, I am sure that doing it would be a recipe for edit war which I do not have the time for. Avihu 13:54, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
if an israeli jew wrote it, he probably knows more about the later times in Jaffa, and wrote them. No one wrote anything to cover up the fact that Jaffa was arabian after it was conquered by the arabs. If you have information on that time without slaming the jews and the israelis, add it. B - Stop trying to make jews and israelis look bad everywhere. On almost every city you will look here, the data is from the recent years, and not from many many years ago, even though most cities have ancient history. I didn't see you complain about that in any information about arabian cities, and especually not on cities that were conquered by arabs. Your message reeks of anti-semics, and I suggest you would tone yourself down. If you were really just concerned about the lack of information, you could have added it yourself like on any other page in wikipedia without attacking, or if you don't know any information, simpley write "can someone write here about Jaffa during the arabian period?" Maglanist
OK, listen up. <soapbox> This is probably something for which there is, or should be a WP policy. The link that has been characterized as propagandistic (without getting into negative characterizations of wikipedians based on their in/ability to properly spell a few "difficult" words) is not necessarily intentionally propagandistic, but it is clearly written by someone with a strongly pro-"Palestinian Arab Nation" mythology POV, and as such, it ends up actually being propagandistic, intentionally or otherwise. There is a lot of useful information available at that site, but it adds nothing that can't be gleaned from the other links. While there's nothing prohibiting external links from having an expressed POV, I think that we, as wikipedians, should come together and discuss this kind of thing, in this case, based on the merits of keeping the link, rather than perpetuating or spreading a very contentious political issue through discussion rather than through reverts and edsum accusations. This is a perfect example of why these TALK pages exist and are, indeed, a GOOD thing. </soapbox> Tomer TALK 04:15, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)
In 1947 and 1948 there was sharp fighting between Jaffa, which was largely inhabited by Arabs, and the adjoining Jewish city of Tel Aviv. On the 13th of May 1948 (A day before the proclamation of the State of Israel), the Arab forces in Jaffa were defeated after long fighting with the Zionist underground Haganah and Irgun Zva'i Leumi forces, and the city was occupied by these Zionist Bands.
As mentioned, it's pov. El_C 06:15, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)This is silly. Instead of noting it as propaganda, which in the West has negative connotations, why not say: site with a pro Israeli, pro Arab/Palestinian pov? I mean, those sites, I haven't really looked at them, but they're pretty useful, no? Are they, with those issues aside? El_C 08:02, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Actually, if you describe the external page as "Palestinian POV" it actually strengthens Israeli arguments that Palestinian public opinion by and large is rejectionist of the existence of Israel. Supposedly, it's the 1949 armistice lines - not the 1947 partition plan - that the Palestinians want as a basis for a two-state solution. --Leifern 10:50, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)
As a way to end this dispute amicably, so that we can all return to writing articles rather than talk pages, I'll agree to any description of the link that makes it clear that the link is biased, such as "Palestinian POV" or any phrasing of similar meaning. Almog 11:34, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I suspect that's not what Tomer et al had in mind; it seems a wee bit, oh, I dunno, propagandistic? Jayjg (talk) 19:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Maybe we could add a little bit about the hardships they endured. Jayjg (talk) 20:19, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
How about "Perspective of a descendant of Palestinians who were dispossessed and brutally expelled from Jaffa by terrorist Zionists, and have lived in abject poverty for 60 years as a result of the racist policies of the Zionist entity". Or we could go with "Palestinian perspective". Jayjg (talk) 21:18, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure what distinction you are making; as far as I was aware, most Palestinian refugees are, in fact, "Palestinians in Palestine". Regardless, I'm sure you can come up with something neutral; for example "Perspective of a descendant of former Arab residents of Jaffa". Jayjg (talk) 22:40, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Given that the city has not been called "Jaffa" during a time when Israel existed, this seems like an odd location for the article. john k 22:15, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
To be constructive, I'd suggest that this usage is prominent enough over other usages of Jaffa to permit this article to be at Jaffa, and the current Jaffa article to be at Jaffa (disambiguation). john k 00:06, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Actually, even today in Israel Jaffa is called Jaffa, just that, in English. e.g. on Ma'atz roadsigns, it specificaly says "Jaffa", underneath the Hebrew "Yafo" and above the Arabic "Yafa", and from a purely linguistic POV correctly so.
Also the municipality, in its official correspondence in English, uses the word Jaffa interchangeable with the word Yafo.
Frankly, I don't know if my comments should be here.
This page has copied and pasted information from http://PalestineRemembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/index.html without referencing the source. The section I am referring to is :
Jaffa had the most advanced commercial, banking, fishing, and agriculture industries in Palestine. It had many factories specializing in cigarette making, cement making, tile and roof tile production, iron casting, cotton processing plants, traditional handmade carpets, leather products, wood boxes for Jaffa oranges, textiles, presses and publications. The majority of all publications and newspapers in Palestine were published in Jaffa.
This page is heavily biased and tainted with pro-Israeli points of view. At http://PalestineRemembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/index.html there is over 6 Nakba Oral History Interviews to prove many of the fact that has been omitted from this page.
I'd like to remove this website from external links, as it's one person's personal website, and he's not someone who could be regarded as a credible source (not an academic, specialist, journalist, or similar). In addition, the material he has on there isn't just POV, it's factually incorrrect. However, I saw in the history there was a bit of revert warring about it before, so I'm checking here first. Cheers. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:04, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
The section reads as if it had been copy-pasted from a certain website to which the section was not explicitly referenced. The section must be rewritten and reference to good, reliable sources. Pecher Talk 09:13, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
User:Pecher seems to be very annoyed with the link Jaffa City Home Page that I added. Could I please get an explenation why it is so important to delete that link? // Liftarn 13:13, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
It's clearly not anonymous. http://www.jaffa.8m.net/about.html actually tells quite a lot about the webmaster. And as per WP:EL it should be included because "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article." and "other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article". I see no ground in WP:EL why it shouldn't be included. Also the claim that "this link has already been discussed many times" seems to be bogus. // Liftarn
It is correct that this site has been discussed many times, but the result after much discussion and a vote was to keep it with a "Palestinian perspective" label. See the section "External links rv argument" up above. You can reopen the discussion if you want, but just overriding the consensus of your own accord is not reasonable. I'll also note that the link "Jacqueline Schaalje, Jaffa" is worse. It is supposed to be a history of Jaffa but never mentions that Jaffa was ever an Arab city. This is pure racism. --Zerotalk 14:55, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I see that http://palestineremembered.com/Jaffa/Jaffa/index.html has been mentioned, but never http://www.jaffa.8m.net I see no evidence of archived discussions either so please explain how it can have been discussed earlier. Anyway, if the consensus was to keep it it should be included and not deleted. // Liftarn
Earlier the consensus was to include the link. // Liftarn
Zeq 05:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
It is clearly not a blog and for being one sided itäs not more so than many other links included in Wikipedia. // Liftarn
It was 46 years ago, on May 13, 1948—the day before Israel's creation—that the all-Arab seaside city of Jaffa surrendered to Jewish forces. It was the largest Arab city in Palestine and, under the U.N. Partition Plan, was to have been part of a Palestinian state. But Menachem Begin's terrorist Irgun group began bombarding civilian sectors of the city on April 25, terrifying the inhabitants into panicky flight. At the time, the city's normal population of around 75,000 was already down to 55,000. On the day of surrender less than three weeks later, only about 4,500 remained. The rest of Jaffa's citizens had fled their homes in terror, becoming part of the 726,000 Palestinian refugees created by the war. Although Arab armies from neighboring countries did not enter Palestine until May 15, Jewish forces had been active in a campaign of ethnic cleansing since passage of the partition plan the previous Nov. 29. The first effort was aimed at clearing out Palestinians living in cities designated as part of the Jewish state
The Middle Ages started with the collapse of Rome, some 4 centuries later. Moreover, the climax of St. Peter's visit to Jaffa was not the resurrection of Tabitha, but a vision he received there (Acts X). Jancikotuc 09:13, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
I hope someone may know a little more here and can add to the article:
Maybe not very Wiki of me to ask for extra info rather than provide it myself.... but from all the P.O.V. discussion it seems there are many people editing this page who know stuff - this is a request to use that knowledge in another way than just tilt the article in your direction :-) Klaasvanschelven 06:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Jayjg recently removed a link to Yudit Ilany's blog about life in Jaffa. I found the site a few days ago. Although the writer is Jewish, she seems to be quite sympathetic to the situation of the indiginous inhabitants of Jaffa. Her site provides a good window into the reality of day to day life of the people who live there. It also includes some excellent photos. Some of this material would definately add to the article. ابو علي (Abu Ali) 21:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
The article says:
Judges 5:17 actually says: "Gilead abode beyond the Jordan; and Dan, why doth he sojourn by the ships? Asher dwelt at the shore of the sea, and abideth by its bays." To me this doesn't says that Jaffa specifically is a territorial border of Dan. Can someone explain to me the connection? The text also claims that the Descendants of Dan 'lived along the coast and earned their living from shipmaking and sailing' -- but cites no source. Can someone point me in the right direction for this? Thanks.
(text transfered here from the article with little changes) There are some new Christian sects and religions who contest that the so-called Gentiles in the New Testament mean simply "nations" and consider they were part of the Israelites exiled from Palestine. The Apostle Paul went to the Israelite brethren and brought them the message of Christ. The Gentiles (nations) are, following these beliefs, the many nations which came from Abraham and Sarah. These nations from Abraham would be found today in the Anglo-Saxon, Nordic and kindred people of Europe. This religious - racial theory is known as Christian Identity. Others, of course, reject this theory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cpt.schoener (talk • contribs) 22:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Peter's vision in Joppa was of eating "unclean animals" and not as described in the text. Knowitall369 (talk) 20:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
I would like to delete: - 'The Arabs rejected the plan'. Not relevant, not neutral. - The attacks on Jewish buses near Netanya. - The call for General strike. - The estimates for casualties across Palestine. Interesting subject but not here. Instead I would propose: - 'Local notables of Jaffa National committee were generally against initiating hostilities.' A major concern was the harvest and export of the citrus crop on which Jaffa's economy depended. (Third largest export market after oil products from Haifa and diamonds from Tel Aviv). - In December, Mayor Yisrael Rokach of Tel Aviv and Mayor Yussuf Haikal (sic) of Jaffa issued a call to their residents to maintain peace and quite. - In February, Mayor Yussuf Haykal (sic) contacted Ben Gurion through a British intermediary trying to secure a peace agreement with Tel Aviv. The Haganah opposed.Padres Hana (talk) 22:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Where can I find RS about the ongoing destruction of Jaffa's ancient Jewish cemetery? Chesdovi (talk) 15:17, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
It would be nice to see a comment on Andromeda's rock. Even if it just mentions this: "At the port city of Jaffa (today part of Tel Aviv) an outcrop of rocks near the harbour has been associated with the place of Andromeda's chaining and rescue by the traveler Pausanias, the geographer Strabo and the historian of the Jews Josephus.[3]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.85.211.196 (talk) 20:54, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Was visiting Tel Aviv in 2010, but hadn't enough time to see the southernmost part, i.e. Jaffa. Next time I'm in Israel, I will visit it. But must in that regards know its size to know what I'm up against. Do I need a whole day to see it properly, or what? Is it just 1 km x 1 km, as someone suggested, or much bigger? Hope for answers with actual numbers by people who knows. Best of all from real residents or people living nearby.
Stein S., Oslo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.128.106.111 (talk) 08:37, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Israel-2013-Jaffa 01.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on April 8, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-04-08. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:59, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
If one goes to the Wikipedia homepage and types in "Jaffa", the link that appears with the photo is captioned "Jaffa old part of a the city of Tel Aviv-Yafo" [sic]. I am not familiar with where that entry is logged for purposes of correction, but would request that it be corrected.One-Off Contributor (talk) 05:32, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
The claim that the city was first settled in 7500 BCE is sourced to a dead link. Additionally, the page http://archaeology.tau.ac.il/?p=4803 (TEL YAFO EXPEDITION), which is likely the same as or similar to the original page, contains nothing remotely supporting that date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.255.45.141 (talk) 00:37, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
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Yaqut al-Hamawi (1179–1229) wrote that "Yafa is a city of Filastin on the coast of the Syrian Sea, and was taken by Saladin with the other coast-towns in 583 (1187). After a few years, however, it was seized on by the Franks in 587 (1191), but was again taken by Al Malik al 'Adil, Saladin's brother, in 593 (1196) and dismantled."(le Strange, 1890, p. 551)
We really need some more sources on the Crusader era times, here, Huldra (talk) 23:02, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
....and we need to integrate the Battle of Jaffa (1192) and Treaty of Jaffa (1192) into the article. (I suspect the Yaqut year of 1191 is actually 1192) Huldra (talk) 23:17, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
The paragraph is discussing the various changes to Tel Aviv's borders. Sheikh Muwannis was part of the Jaffa subdistrict until incorporated into Tel Aviv. How exactly is including that a problem? nableezy - 15:05, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
Since Jaffa and T-A became one city, the story of how that happened is just as relevant here-- would you agree to rename the section in question as "Incorporation into Tel-Aviv"? Or "integration", or "unification", or "annexation", whatever -- just to make sure the section stays about "the story of how that happened", and not about any and all changes to T-A city borders. --My another account (talk) 14:59, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
To editor Arminden: "'Serrani', Jaffa's town hall built by a Jewish architect during the Late Ottoman years". This needs a source. I'm sceptical because architects design buildings, they don't usually build them. Zerotalk 06:14, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
OK, I found it. Baruch Papirmeister from Rishon L'Zion (all this can be written in all the permutations known to you). There is one confusion possible, between the town hall, which got blown up in 48, and the building immediately right/S of it, the governor's residence, restored to become a museum before Erdogan got upset with Netanyahu, Israel and the rest. This I cannot figure out, as nobody reliable is trying to connect the dots, or show a picture. The 'Serrani' sentence is been copied by the whole Internet, with no single explanation what that is and why they call it that way. The 'Saraya' might be either the (blown up) town hall or the adjacent governor's residence. Here you go, maybe you can figure it out: here, and look for Papirmeister. You find again '"Saraya (Government House) in Jaffa' attributed to 'Papirmayster Baruch' on this page, based on the Rishon local museum archive. A less reliable page (here) suggests that Papirmeister's building would be the one still standing. If they're right, then I was wrong. It is confusing, two buildings sharing a wall and both are official municipality/admin. buildings. Whatever. Arminden (talk) 07:18, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Here they are. Now (facade remains + renovated "saraya") and with both still standing (on the right side, residence first, town hall with columns right after it). And here are the Anzacs facing both. Arminden (talk) 08:24, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
@Zero0000: It's not Germany. I'd say the loose end should stay loose until we have some positive source. Ottoman governors were local despots, see Hassan Bek. The power was where the Pasha/Bey/Agha was.
I have done a lot of research and here is what I have. It seems that the bombed/columns building held the offices and the governor lived in the next door building: for the population & the press, both were "the palace" (serail, saraya). Think of the Sultan: the Power was called the High Porte, because a gate to the palace was all the populace got to know of "the Palace" = the Power. Who knows why the governor in Jaffa decided at some point to have two buildings.
The bombed/columns building is categorically NOT the Old Sarail, but the "New Sarail". There was an "Old Saraya", built by Muhammad Abu Nabbut (gov. 1807–1818) inside the old walls; this one is outside. I easily agree to drop "Serrani" if there's no source for it and either use town hall, which is a correct term and gives all the information one needs, or some variation of "New Sarail" or "New Saraya". According to Bshara quoting "Shukri Arraf, al-Saraya: Government Headquarters in Palestine during the Ottoman Era (Ramallah: Riwaq, 2016)", seray, sarai, or saray is the Turkish/Persian word for palace, and by contamination with an Arabic word for military detachment or brigade, sariyya (sing.) / saraya (pl.), al-saraya became the popular word for the HQ or seat of power in Ottoman times. Bedouin ruler Dhaher el-Omar & his clan has built several, so it was a decentralised matter for a while.
Why two buildings? Not clear. Were they built together? Not clear. Was the pretentious columns building with the faux façade rising higher than the actual building designed by Baruch Papirmeister? Yes, no doubt. Was the adjacent residential villa of the governor also his work? I cannot say.
The standing residential house, which was supposed to open as the "Turkish Cultural Center in Israel", is now also officially called the Seraya. That's now, not sure about earlier, when the office building was still standing. Here are the Commons images. They amalgamate the 2 buildings, as does the explanatory text on the plaque from the columns facade: it uses the term "saraya" for both buildings, as one complex. The usual mess. MAYBE Papiermeister designed both, but I doubt it a bit. However, even if the residence looks more traditional, it's the same shoe box (rectangular cuboid) after all... Only the decoration varies, and that makes a big visual difference. See also the Papirmeister article (Hebrew): easy to recognise the almost identical cuboid "style" of his buildings, with only the decoration distinguishing the one from the other.
Maybe the best photo so far, as it also shows part of the N side. The website of Eyal Ziv, the architect who restored the column facade & the residential villa, has all the visual info one can hope for. But nothing on who has designed the villa and when. Arminden (talk) 05:56, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
I think these photos are rather good & should be included. Padres Hana (talk) 22:15, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Great! Maybe next to the 3 maps? They're like 3D additions to the maps. And I think regrouping some of the photos in galleries is a good idea, with just the most relevant ones left next to the respective text paragraphs. Arminden (talk) 22:34, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
A great read: Maayan Hillel, Under the Radar: Arab and Jews Crossing Cultural Boundaries in Mandatory Palestine. Hillel got her PhD from TAU, this is a lecture based on her thesis and held no later than 2013. It contains an August 1927 quote from the Falastin newspaper that's absolutely perfect for T-shirts & any future Forest Gump remake: "The Jewish woman will be kind enough to drown in the sea of[f] Tel Aviv [rather than Jaffa]." It's the conclusion to a story of how Arab men/boys saved a Jewish girl from drowning. Followed by a story of national appropriation from the opposite side from 1935 Tel Aviv, but w/o the incredible punchline character of the Falastin quote. People lived, let live, and helped each other stay alive; ideologues scoffed at this fact. Not always, but as a general norm. Arminden (talk) 23:21, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
It is clear that Jaffa (Biblical Joppa) was a Philistine harbour town and nowhere in the Bible there is a claim of it being taken over by the Israelites. In the old Testament there are only 4 references, firstly in Joshua 19:46 geving the tribe of Dan land against Joppa, never claiming Joppa itself as part of Dan, unlike f.i. Ekron, even though that also remained a major Philistine centre, even becoming the seat of the Assyrian governer of Philistia in the 7th century. Then it is for a long time not mentioned again until IIChronicles 2:16 claims it was used as a port for the cedar wood of the Lebanon for the building of the first temple. However, the book of Kings (which is a much earlier source) doesn't mention that and it is likely that this is just an echo of Ezra 3:7 telling that cedar for the second temple arrived via Joppa. Cronicles is usually supposed to be written by Ezra, but might even have been written much later. The last reference is in Jonah, as a port of transportion to Tarshish (wich is probably a late fictional work).
Interestingly, both the stories in Kings and Chronicles mention the cedars being transported as floats, which would be a totally logical thing to do at that point in time as ships would be to small to transport large numbers of beams. As an added bonus this would need no harbour to land them, they could just be beached anywhere that was convenient. One would certainly not use a harbour for this, with the difficulties of navigating it into a harbour and risking blocking it and damaging ships. So the retelling in Chronicles has probably mixed these two events. However, between the 9th and 5th century ships had certainly become a lot bigger, so a transport of timber by ships might be a possibility at that point in time (any shipwreck archaeologist might have some insights on this?) So the story in Ezra might be historical (he is not mentioning floats) and ownership of Joppa is no problem at that time, as both Joppa and Jeruzalem were in the Persian empire.
So i wonder: is there any clear archaeological or historical evidence on what was the last point in time this port was part of Philistine? The present article is very unclear and the claims it was taken in the time of king David and Solomo does not seem to be based at any facts so should be removed from the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Codiv (talk • contribs) 14:07, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
To whoever in dealing with potential edits: Victor Norris Hamilton, listed under "notable people," died in 1997. Dorothy Kernaghan-Baez (talk) 13:28, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
change is an ancient port city in Israel. to is an ancient port city in Palestine.
[1] MKweight (talk) 13:46, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
References
To editor Artem.G:, To editor Onel5969:, To editor Crash48: User-generated maps are always based on published maps and their reliability rests only on the reliability of the published map and the faithfulness of the copy. There is no requirement for another source. In the case of the disputed map, the 1944 maps made by the Survey of Palestine are an excellent source for the 1944 boundary. The only thing I'm concerned with is the 2022 boundary: Crash48, can you give more information about that? Zerotalk 14:34, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:07, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
Change "1129 peace treaty" to "1229 peace treaty" in the lead section. The typo is here in the second paragraph: "... as well as a later 1129 peace treaty. In 1799, Napoleon also sacked the town...". Md143rbh7f (talk) 22:03, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
Please add the following pronunciation as it is the most common one:
Hebrew pronunciation: [ˈjafo] SuzieMillen (talk) 04:31, 9 February 2024 (UTC)