Hyperpower gets an article but not Great Power?? -- CJWilly
Canada and Australia as disputed powers? Now that's funny! And what about Mexico, Brazil, Egypt, Israel, they're far more powerful.
Mexico, Brazil and Egypt are still more powerful, and Israel too in terms of military, influence, and nuclear power.
Added the Netherlands to Great Powers throughout history, instead of disputed. Since the Netherlands is officially the first modern superpower. See superpower.
Portugal frustrated the Ottomans in the Indian Ocean/India and booted the Dutch out of Brazil in the 17th century (so much for Dutch "superpower" - great: yes, super: no). Hence deleted Portugal from disputed. 1 Dec 05 (A.W.C.M)
Conceded - after all have done a few edits myself highlighting how the rise of Dutch power in that time. Cheers. Rob 7 Jan 06
I'm sure Portugal and Italy were great powers at some point in history. Portugal had a large empire around the time of the huge Spanish empire, and Italy was a great power around the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
Italy fought 11 great battles against the Austrians in WWI in incredibly mountainous terrain - against entrenched forces - diverting massive numbers of Austro-Hungarians from the Western Front. They felt aggrieved that their major contribution was down played at the end of the war. In stark contrast WWII Italy was pathetic. 1 Dec 05 (A.W.C.M)
The major issue I want to report is Italy, first of all the downfall of Italy as a great power was 1943 and not 1945. In 1943 Italy surrendered and in the two subsequent years it passed thru German invasion, Civil War and Allied Occupation. So 1945 is wrong. The bigger mistake is not considering Italy as a Great or even Major Power from the 80's till present. Italy is a member of the G-7, meaning is a major economic power,in certain years was the 5th major on earth, the Made in Italy is the second most competitive after Made in Germany, the international trade is big, since the war it has grown at a very high rate, almost like Japan. It has a population, GNP and economic position like that of France and UK,altough in recent years it has fall behind a little. If you consider GDP PPP Italy as the same amount of total GDP as France. Italy has many more big or medium companies than Russia, India or China. It has companies active in gas and oil field, the biggest of whose is ENI,which is one of the major players in that fiels. Take Germany for an instance, it has none, only subsidiaries of foreign companies, it has Rurhgas and some Utilities but a Petroleum company it doesn't have, and Italy has. Italy also has a residual amount of Gas and Petroleum but nevertheless it has more petroleum than Germany, Japan or France, altough it has almost none too. The diplomatic and International Relations of Italy in the recent years changed too.Now Italy is not anymore the silent partner of the Franco-German axis on EU, it is an important partner of UK and has halted some federalistic ambitions of the Franco-German axis. Even on the World stage its word is more important than someone could judge at first glance and than many countries. What was the diplomatic achivement of the G4 so far, none. Italy with her allies has managed to block the entrance of this countries to UN Security Council. It proposed semi-permanet seats or permanent seats on a reagional basis with rotation,like another from EU which could be to Germany, Italy or even Spain or even more EU members on a rotational basis, others seats to other parts of the world. If the G4 proposition would go thru many important countries no only economically,but also geostrategically speaking would remain outside the real decisions. And don't forget who is the 4th net contributor to UN budget-Italy. Also in foreign relations, the position of Italy is geostrategically much more important these days than that of Germany. Cold War is over,in that time Germany was at the center, now the problem is in Meadle East and Arab countries in general, ao Italy is much more well connected, its like an aircraft base in the middle of the Mediterranean .Japan could be important in future, but today altough its is the 4th spender in defence and as large armed forces, they only serve to self-defence and peace missions. And what was the first real war Germany was allowed to intervene in the post WWII- Kosovo in 1999.It had a smal contigent in 1991 in the Gulf War, but nothing like Italy.Japan cannot enter agressive wars, Germany could only after 1990,when Italy could after 1970. Italy entered a real and difficult war cenario in 1982 in Lebanon and altough at the beggining the allies mistrusted Italy,in the end its participation was fulcral even to safeguard the life of french and USA citizens. In 1991 it sent a substantial contingent to Operation Desert Storm mainly consiting of F-104 and Tornado Bombers, which made their very countribut too. In 1999 in Kosovo was the same, even more with the AM-X Ghibli. In Iraq, (agree with the war or not) Italy has the third largest contingent, many italians have died and even a secret service official was killed in a position of honour, defending the life of a civilian. Italians are not cowards as the anglo-saxons tend to generalize. In military technologies Italy has it indigenous industries, the major of which is Finmeccanicca, a huge conglomerate. It builds its own tanks like the Ariete, Tanks destroyers, like Centauro, Dardo AFV's and many more. It builds missiles and is part of MBDA consortium, the second largets of the world after Raytheon corporation in missile technologies. Italy has a small aircraft carrier and its building another one bigger, with the most powerfull conventional(non nuclear) angine of the world. As I know Germany and Japan doesn't own aircraft carriers, nor big destroyers like the 2 ones Italy is building with France, and the 10 frigates of ultimate generation its building with France too. In terms of Nuclear capabilities, German and Japan sometimes talk of owning its own deterrent force, but the only missiles Germany is supposed to have owned was in WWII. Itally planned a nuclear destroyer in the 60's,nuclear submarines which would have been equiped with Polaris missiles, but it was forced by the USA, Nato and other preesures of its own to abanon them. But it lauche one of the first satellites of the world, has an important space agency-ASI, its the thir more important member of ESA, the VEGA project its almost all from Italy, and in the 70's it tested sucessfully ballistic missiles- ALFA, made by italian industry, but the signed the Non Proliferation Protocol,but in the early 80's the idea emerged again and it Italy was to have its own Force de Frappe, if you don't believe ask Mr. Lelio Lagorio, defence minister at the time. It builds since the 60's good conventional submarines,the last in cooperation with Germany. Italy has the third most important Navy of EU and the 6th of the world, Germany only equalls that of Holland. It builds fighter aircrafts too. It entered the Tornado and EFA Typhoon programm, with a minor quote but is part of the consortium. Since the 50's it produces advanced jet trainers from Aermacchi sold all over the world with much sucess, helicopters, it has build the firs attack heli in EU, the A129 Mangusta, now its one of the major player in that industry, owning AgustaWestland. It also haves Alenia, Telespazio, Avio, Selex, Fincantieri, Otobreda, Iveco Defence Unit.The Fiat G91 was another sucess, winning a NATO contest for a light attack and strike aircraft, Germany bought and manufactured under license many of them. The AM-X was mainly Italian, altough Brazil had a 30% quota on it. So you put Brazil as a potential Major Power and Italy, wich deserves a place for a long, you don't even consider it for the future. Even if Brazil growns economically, in military, international relevance, its nothing compared to Italy. Doesn't have nothing indigeneous in terms of military-industrial, while Italy has lots of things. Brazil, India and China have aircraft carriers for instance, but they are old crapp bought from real Major Powers. Even in the F-35 JSF Italy is a 2nd level partner, being the USA the main contractor and the only first level partner the UK. Its is a partner also in the Dassault Neuron UCAV.ACamposPinho 03:48, 6 May 2006
It would be helpful if someone could write beside each 'great power' the general period when they were or are considered great powers. Eg: USA (XXXX - present). Also in the Great powers of modern history section, it would be good if you could write what time period is considered modern history.
You're joking - I hope. I thought it grew out of and followed the Renaissance - the rise of humanism, later Descartes, the era of European exploration, the Reformation, the rise of science, etc, that ended Medieval modes of thinking. 1 Dec 05. (Australian working class man).
Casey - sorry - accept that "early" modern era immediatly followed the medieval - since "early modern" is now used for the "Renaissance". Personally I like to think of the Renaissance/Reformation as a transitory period between the two - but you were right - though I think it looks as if you see my point of view too. Robert 1 Jan 06
The Great Power page has some minor mistakes like date of rise of Spain is Spain unification,right, but it was in 1492 not 1469, other thing I think is wrong is the downfall of Portugal, you can consider 1580/81,but you can consider the period from 1640 (reconquest of independence to Napoleonic Wars and Brazil independence as another period in which the country was a great power, and any historian will confirm it, in this period the country was so or more important than before. Another example is Japan, you cannot consider it a power from 1905-Present. You can consider it a Great Power between 1905 and 1945 and then from a date like late 70's or early 80's to present a Major Power, because if you consider it was always a Great/Mjor Power so you should do the same to Germany too. In the period 1945-50 Japan was occupied by USA forces, you should know it and was not even a sovereign country, from the 50's thru the 70's it went thru a major economic growth, but I think the 70's/80's is the best place to put Japan as a Major/Great Power again, but even today its more a economic power than a great power in all the senses that definition carries.ACamposPinho 03:49, 6 May 2006
Until regional powers such as: Nigeria, Mexico, Norway, South Africa, Brazil, Israel, and others reach great power status or even on disputed, they won't be on the list, because they only hold regional power.Casey14 22:02, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
During the Rennaissance in Europe, India was ruled by the Mughal Emperors and Sivaji to the South, both powerful empires. Post-independence, India has fought 3 successful wars with Pakistan, a war with China and a border-skirmish with Pakistan in 1999. It possesses Nuclear Weapons and is the 2nd largest Military Force in terms of numbers in the world. Added to that, it's PPP is 4th in the world, India should be classed perhaps slightly less powerful than China at this stage.203.214.59.210 04:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Why are France and the UK still on the list as a "Great Power" and Germany and Japan just until 1945? Both of them are important economic powers today.
I changed the start date for Japan from 1868 to 1898, which was when they got rid of the unequal treaty consequentially to their victory in the Sino-Japanese War. Also I've added stuf about 1919.Harrypotter 21:56, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Given the disparity between the post WWII power of the superpowers and the rest is it meaningful to speak of "Great Powers" post WWII? 8-Jan-06
UK, France - great powers post 1956? In a time of super-powers and "hyperpower" there is no such thing - as their ability to act independently - as shown by the Suez - is severely circumscribed - or to put it another way - the UK is very much the follower in Iraq. As for EU - well it may bepossible one day, but at the present it looks anything but powerful, as Iran has shown with the "EU 3". 210.49.196.39 00:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to interfere, but who added EU as a emerging power?? The EU is so fragmented. It is so hard to develop a consensus between France, Britain and Germany. --Spartian 07:47, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Should we add it? Something like 1576-1658, 1683-1704?
who keeps on changing russia to present
Just like after the 30 Years War: Sweden, Austria, England, France, Spain, the Ottomans the Netherlands and posssibly Denmark and Portugal were world powers. After Congress of Vienna: Austria, Prussia, Russia, France, Britain, and The Ottoman Empire were world powers, as Spain might have been clinging upon the status, but would lose it. Aftter World War One: France, Britain, Russia, Japan, the US, Italy, and arguably Germany were world powers. and we can go on and on, there are more than just two or three powers at a time, there are five, six, or seven.Casey14 00:26, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
china is not a world power its military is very primitive
armies need to be advanced not only big and the pupulation hates the goverment so they will probaly desert
who thought that france was a world power when it was occuipied is hilarious i changed it
after world war 1 germany was not powerful
can someone erase china
Can someone erase India then if they are going to erase china? Since India's economy and military lags behind China's. Also its weird that the "primitive" military of China spends the second most on military in the world...maybe they are not so primitive. O btw China has the 4th largest economy in the world and the 2nd largest by PPP. Only a fool wouldn't china on there.
This page, as power (international) should not be considered a page detailing great powers and the role of great powers in society. It has been agreed on other pages that deal with such a topic (Superpower, Major power, Potential Superpowers) that the power hierarchy is as follows:
This means we must:
I'll wait a while for your views, before taking a course of action. Nobleeagle (Talk) 05:50, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Who erased China?
I just wanted to remind everyone this was a great power page, because someone might start saying India or China or even Portugal/Denmark/the Netherlands arn't or wern't great powers. However, they meet all great power criteria. Also, when making the dates, for example Spain, which lost superpower status at the War of Spanish Succession, but didn't lose great power status till The Spanish-American War. Casey14 23:18, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
how comer china has to periods and germany is one huge thing for exnaple after WW1 it was not powerful and after WW2 for a while it was also not that powerful
I'm not particularly informed on Portuguese history, but I noticed its great power status ended during the Spanish annexation. While that did end its status as a global power, couldn't it be argued that Portugal contined Great Power status into the 1600's? Portugal was also a major player in Imperialism, though I doubt its armies or economy compared to the other great powers. I'm not taking a position, just inquiring. 12.220.94.199 02:39, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I think that we could possibly do with some clarification of the appropriate subject matter for this page. Power, in the context of international relations, encompasses many different gradations; from the hyperpower to the major power to the middle power, and all the other varieties in between. Presently there are individual articles for all these types of power, all of them - including that of the Great power. Given this, is it really appropriate to deal with Great powers here rather than on the dedicated page? This article is after all titled Power in international relations - there is no mention of Great powers in the title.
I would suggest that we move the Great power content to the dedicated article and replace it with a discussion about the various types of international power, in the abstract, leaving in-depth discussion to the individual pages of each type of power.
Xdamr 13:08, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I finally found where it originated from: here.
{{International power}} has been updated so that it looks better, if you have any problems with viewing the template can you just tell me and I'll try and fix it. Nobleeagle (Talk) 06:34, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I've pasted this section in from the Great Power page, it seems more appropriate here than on that page, dealing as it does with other gradations of power than that of the Great power.
Xdamr 17:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I dunno, I'm pretty sure we've had super powers WAY before WW II and later. Because if the US is a super power today by having the largest cultural influenece, strongest millitary, greatest economy, and etc. Than wouldn't you say civilistations like ancient Egypt, ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, the Spanish Empire, and the British Empire were all once super powers too? They all once had the strongest millitary, economy, and cultural influence in their heydays, but now we see them as nothing more than second powers or some (like Rome) are dissoluted. I'm just saying, super powers can't just be something modern when you look at older civilisations in all the same situation.
Samusfan80 17:51, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
This article (and, I suspect, most other associated articles), has an absolute dearth of references. It all reeks of original research disguised as common sense. If I really wanted to start splitting hairs, I think I could add {{fact}} tags to the end of every sentences. And for every reference an American can find to show that America is the world's sole hyperpower, I'm sure a European can find a reference to dispute America's power monopoly. I'm afraid there's a foundational problem surrounding this issue, specifically: a lack of hindsight. We're living in the present and so it's hard to say who truly holds power until it changes hands in a historically dramatic fashion. I'm sure the oft-mentioned Romans thought of themselves as a hyperpower in their own time, but would we describe them as such? And truly, has there ever been a case where millions of people living in one region exerted true power over millions of people in a distant region? No, all that has occured has been the innovation of radically different standards of warfare during and since WW2. As these standards proliferate over the next few generations (as standards managed to proliferate in the past, first with bronze, then iron, despite the efforts of the innovating culture to maintain their initial monopoly), national boundaries will continue to be redrawn, and power will continue to shift through various numbers and groups of hands.
What all this means today, to this article: the endless talk about the definition of great powers and superpowers and hyperpowers is senseless. Social power is always concentrated unequally. The areas between the Persian, Roman, Maurya, Hunnic, and Han empires have been perpetually exploited throughout history in the national defense of whatever peoples happened to occupy the aforementioned imperial territory. Is this the kind of power we're talking about here? Xaxafrad 03:12, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
I want to start a discussion on why India should be considered as a global power I believe India should be considered for a great power because:
Neilpine (talk) 22:37, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:Realism in international relations - Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 19:02, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
I have a feeling that the regional and middle powers were listed arbitrarily in the "Categories of Power" section. They are all unsourced and I have just reverted someone who added Turkey to the regional powers, because Turkey's categorization as such has become pretty outdated now,[1] considering the recent developments in the region. And even if, most of the relevant sources talk about Turkish "ambitions" or "aspirations" for regional supremacy.[2][3] This doesn't prove anything. I am also having a hard time finding sources referring to Spain as a regional power. Can someone help me out here? Fitzcarmalan (talk) 09:46, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
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I decided to remove Spain, the citations for Spain were listed in Spanish language , Spanish media talk only of an influence in latin america (Not Globally) and only for the language, I personally do not consider Spain as a Global cultural power , I could mention France, China or India so far more important than Spain.--LuigiPortaro29 16:14, 18 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LuigiPortaro29 (talk • contribs)
Hello TechnicianGB. All I want to see is one or two reliable citations that reasonably describe/conclude/assert that Spain is a "cultural superpower". As of yet, you have not done so. Instead, you have merely drawn your own conclusions from the citations you provided, and unfortunately, that is considered "original research" and against Wikipedia policy. I would love to see Spain included in the article if we find the appropriate sources, so I do not appreciate you saying that I have some kind of hate for Spain. It is nearly midnight here, so I can discuss this further tomorrow if you want and i'll have some time to try and dig up a few good sources for Spain. If not, it may be best to take this matter to dispute resolution, or omit Spain from the article if reliable sources calling Spain a cultural superpower cannot be found. Thanks! Antiochus the Great (talk) 23:45, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
With all due respect, you have to be extremely ignorant to not consider Spain as a cultural superpower. Spain has an enormous historical heritage and has directly influenced a good part of the world due to its immense colonial empire, now called Hispanidad. Spain also has a very extensive global language throughout the world (the second most spoken native language in fact), and it is one of the few official languages of the UN. Spain is the second most visited country in the world, only slightly surpassed by France, and it is a country whose national history is necessary to understand the history and development of the Western World, particularly Western Europe and the Americas.
I obviously agree with the others and their consensus. Venezia Friulano (talk) 13:22, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
References
Our partners at the Elcano Royal Institute have released their latest edition of the Global Presence Index. It confirms that the EU – if perceived as a single global actor – has the greatest degree of 'presence' in the world, largely because of the contributions of the UK, Germany and France.
This is the approach of Kenneth Waltz (Waltz, Theory of International Politics, p. 131; Waltz, 'The Emerging Structure of International Politics,' International Security, Vol. 18, No. 2, p. 50), John Mearsheimer (Mearsheimer, The Tragedy of Great Power Politics, pp. 12, 43, 55, 57, and 61-62), and Richard Haass ('The Age of Nonpolarity: What Will Follow U.S. Dominance,' Foreign Affairs, Vol. 87, No. 3, p. 45), among others. Are they 'the military'? Certainly not. Geopoliticians? Don't think so (or then everyone is). Brenda James (talk) 22:27, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
Well, that " new imagine" is old it is irrelevant a Document of canada of the 1998-1999, However I wish to see in what Part of the Statement of the Publication there a Map, Because there's no Maps in that "Old" publication. so I think that someone have Made that Map from his own Computer since in the publication of Chapnick Adam "The Middle Power" theres no maps and IMPORTANT thing , the Publication doesn't talk about Italy, Germany, Japan and India, talk only about Canadian affairs as a middle Power!. Today theres Documents, Journals , Publications of Ben W. Heineman, Jr., Fritz Heimann, Milena Sterio and even Obama that Talk about Italy as great power or a great Player, as well Zbigniew Brzezinski talks about India as a Global Power. So I though that the Map is a fake and is Better to delete it , since the Publication of "The Middle Power" of Chapnick Adam doesn't talk about a "global order", them talk ONLY about Canadian foreign policy in comparision with the countries of the P5 . so please, Before to make a Publication with a Map it is better to read and make a Control in the Publication. LuigiPortaro29 (talk)16:22, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
In that map Spain,Australia,Canada,Turkey and many others are not well ranked.Spain is neither considered a major regional power.They are even considered at the same level of Italy and India.Not necessarily every article must have maps or similar things to be complete.There's an excess of them.It was fantasy that map made by a sockpuppet as reported below it.89.97.225.68 (talk) 16:31, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
as well all of them have the largest Veto Power of IMF. as well them ( with the exeption of India) are the largest contributors of the UN Budget. , it is very debatable if Brazil is a great Power but in my personal opinion Brazil is so far to be considered a great Power. Brazil lacks of a Strong Voice in Global decisions. There other aspects to talk as for Global Power : Navigation Systems or Arms control,as well the countries ,who profit the most from the War economy, etc, the discussion can be very constructive. LuigiPortaro29 (talk)00:30, 14 February 2017 (UTC)