Википедия:Избранные статьи-кандидаты

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• WP:FACGO

Номинации

Музей «Дом купца»

Номинатор(ы): Epicgenius ( обсуждение ) 15:15, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Эта статья об историческом доме в Нью-Йорке, построенном в 1830-х годах для семьи Тредвелл, в то время, когда окружающий район был престижным жилым районом. Дом оставался во владении семьи почти столетие, даже несмотря на то, что большинство богатых соседей семьи переехали. После смерти последнего ребенка дом стал музеем в 1936 году, едва избежав сноса. Несмотря на то, что даже сегодня он является относительно скромным музеем, Музей Merchant's House был одной из первых официальных достопримечательностей Нью-Йорка, и вы все еще можете увидеть там многие из вещей семьи. Удивительно, но в отличие от буквально любой другой резиденции 19 века в Нью-Йорке, дом до сих пор сохраняет свой первоначальный дизайн.

Эта страница стала Хорошей статьей в июне после обзора GAN несколькими редакторами, за что я очень благодарен. После нескольких недавних копирайтингов от Mox Eden, которые я также очень ценю, я думаю, что страница соответствует качеству FA. Я с нетерпением жду всех комментариев и отзывов. Epicgenius ( обсуждение ) 15:15, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Сиэтл Кракен

Номинатор(ы): XR 228 ( обс .) 06:48, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Seattle Kraken — вторая самая новая команда в Национальной хоккейной лиге, основанная в 2018 году и сыгравшая свою первую игру в 2021 году. За три сезона они выступили не очень прилично, попав в плей-офф только один раз. Я номинировал эту статью на FA пару месяцев назад, но она не получила достаточного количества отзывов, поэтому я надеюсь, что на этот раз мы сможем этого избежать. Спасибо. XR 228 ( talk ) 06:48, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Станция метро Buangkok

Номинатор(ы): ZKang123 ( обсуждение ) 04:07, 14 ноября 2024 г. (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Это моя вторая номинация статьи о станции MRT, которая оставалась закрытой даже после открытия линии. После некоторого лоббирования со стороны жителей, депутатов и лидеров низовых органов с целью открытия станции, включая редкую форму общественного протеста путем установки картонных фигур «белого слона», станция в конечном итоге была открыта. Ранее высказывались опасения по поводу формулировок и фраз некоторых частей статьи, и я отправил ее в GOCE для редактирования. Поскольку семестр заканчивается, у меня также есть больше времени для работы над любыми потенциальными проблемами, которые могут возникнуть в процессе рассмотрения FAC. ZKang123 ( talk ) 04:07, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Землетрясение в Халапе 1920 г.

Номинатор(ы): Дора, исследовательница топоров ( исследовать ) 14:48, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Эта статья о смертоносном и разрушительном землетрясении в Мексике, известном своими разрушительными оползнями, которые способствовали потерям. Его предполагаемая магнитуда составляла от 6,3 до 6,4, и оно произошло в Трансмексиканском вулканическом поясе, регионе, испытывающем экстенсивную тектонику, где нормальные разломы вызывают сейсмическую активность. Это событие могло быть вызвано неглубоким нормальным разломом, типом разлома, наблюдаемым при других землетрясениях вдоль пояса. Дора Axe-plorer ( исследовать ) 14:48, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Обзор изображения

• Не используйте фиксированный размер в пикселях

• Файл:Templo_de_Teocelo,_Veracruz,_terremoto_1920.png: дата смерти автора? То же самое: Earthquake_Isoseismal_map_terremoto_1920_Xalapa_pdf.pdf, Файл: Saltillo_Lafragua_church,_terremoto_1920.png, Файл: Landslide_scars_on_Cerro_Colorado_in_Patlanalá,_Puebla.png, Файл:Enríquez_Street,_Xalapa,_terremoto_1920.png, Файл:Cosautlán,_Veracruz_1920_terremoto.png. Никкимария ( обсуждение ) 05:25, 14 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

Обратите внимание, что в оригинальной публикации на первых страницах не указаны авторы, поэтому я приписал их Instituto Geológico de México, 1922. Согласно Alamy, они находятся в открытом доступе, хотя загруженные файлы являются скриншотами отчета. По крайней мере один из авторов, которых я нашел через вторичный источник, — Теодоро Флорес, ум. 1955. Другим, возможно, был Орасио Камачо, ум. 2015.

Записи Алами:

• [1]
• [2]
• [3]
• [4]
• [5]
• [6]

Дора — искательница топоров (исследовать) 06:04, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

В какой стране, по данным Алами, они находятся в общественном достоянии?

В настоящее время они помечены как life+70 — если вероятные авторы умерли в 1955 и 2015 годах, этот тег еще не применяется. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 00:20, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Я не могу расшифровать, я проверяю этот вопрос у Алами. Дора, исследователь топоров ( исследовать ) 00:41, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Есть еще семь работ, загруженных ботом Panorami в 2010 и 2016 годах из источника 1922 года под лицензией CC-BY-SA-3.0. Еще больше можно найти под этим катом Dora the Axe-plorer ( исследовать ) 01:02, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Ножи достать

Номинатор(ы): DAP ( обсуждение ) 08:21, 12 ноября 2024 г. (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Что вы получите, когда задумаете детектив по мотивам Агаты Кристи со звездным актерским составом во главе с британским актером, играющим южный акцент, который слишком карикатурен, чтобы быть точным, но в любом случае довольно сексуален? Если вы угадали «Достать ножи» , то вы довольно азартный человек. Этот фильм режиссера Райана Джонсона следует за расследованием частного детектива ( Дэниела Крейга ) смерти автора бестселлеров (которого играет покойный Кристофер Пламмер ) в истории, критикующей класс и расу в современном американском обществе. Большое спасибо LEvalyn за их обзор GA, Aoba47 за их рецензию и Baffle gab1978 за выполнение моего запроса на редактирование! DAP 💅 08:21, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Правдивая запись

Номинатор(ы): —  Крис Вудрич ( обсуждение ) 19:00, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Эта статья о недолговечном журнале, который появился в первые дни Китайской Республики. Хотя он просуществовал всего семнадцать выпусков, The True Record считается одним из важнейших журналов своей эпохи. Эта статья предлагает всесторонний обзор английской литературы, а также нескольких источников на китайском языке (и одного на японском), предлагая наиболее полный обзор этой публикации из имеющихся. —  Крис Вудрич ( обсуждение ) 19:00, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Изображения имеют соответствующую лицензию. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 05:02, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Генералиссимус

• Снижаю оценку за отзыв позже. Генералиссима ( обсуждение ) (оно/она) 06:38, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Джеральд Даррелл

Номинатор(ы): Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 17:24, 11 ноября 2024 г. (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Эта статья об одном из самых влиятельных людей в истории биологии сохранения. Даррелл прославился своими книгами и использовал деньги от них, чтобы основать Jersey Zoo . Еще в середине 1970-х годов на самом высоком уровне мира зоопарков все еще существовало противодействие идее о том, что зоопарки могут помочь в сохранении исчезающих видов. Работа Даррелла является одной из главных причин того, что это больше не так. Один момент, который заметят рецензенты: статья в значительной степени зависит от одного источника: единственной биографии Даррелла в виде книги, написанной Дугласом Боттингом. Есть и другие воспоминания, и я процитировал некоторые материалы из них, но по сути это книги анекдотов, а не энциклопедического материала. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 17:24, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Обзор изображения

• Файл:Gerald_Durrell,_Askania_Nova_(cropped).jpg: ссылка на источник не работает, и я заметил, что загрузчик удалил несколько загрузок из-за проблем с разрешениями — есть ли что-нибудь, подтверждающее публикацию этого изображения? Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 04:59, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Ничего, что я могу найти. Фотография относится к периоду пребывания Даррелла в Аскании-Нова, в середине 1980-х; у меня есть книга о той поездке, и эта фотография не в той главе, так что, по крайней мере, возможно, что она была сделана отдельно, как и заявлено. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 11:18, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

УК

Сохраняю место. 09:51, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC)

• Джеральд Малкольм Даррелл, OBE (7 января 1925 – 30 января 1995) был британским натуралистом : как предупреждает MOS:COMMA , не позволяйте другим знакам препинания отвлекать от необходимости запятой. Поскольку у нас есть запятая перед OBE , нам нужна еще одна после нее — в данном случае после скобок. Однако вполне приемлемой альтернативой, которая лучше сочетается с предпросмотрами, которые вы получаете при наведении мыши на ссылку, было бы удаление предыдущей запятой.

  Запятая удалена.

• По данным WP:INFONAT , я думаю, что было бы целесообразно уточнить его британское гражданство в информационном поле, поскольку это не очевидно из его места рождения и смерти.

  Добавлено "British" в инфобокс. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Поездки по сбору животных : рассмотрите поездки по сбору животных согласно MOS:HYPHEN , но это спорно в любом случае.

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• он женился на Жаклин Расен : лучше, чем женился на Жаклин ( урожденной  Расен ) ?

  Я думаю, лучше так, как есть, если только вы не слишком в этом уверены — в то время, когда они поженились, ее звали Джеки Расен, и хотя я знаю, что это распространенное выражение, простое использование имени таким образом всегда кажется мне странным. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Не проблема — для меня в равной степени странно использовать имя, которое стало неправильным из-за описываемого нами действия, но в любом случае есть свои плюсы и минусы, и это в значительной степени вопрос редакционного вкуса. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 07:36, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• В 1957 году он посетил Камерун в третий раз и по возвращении попытался убедить городские советы Борнмута и Пула открыть местные зоопарки... : очень длинное предложение. Оно читается лучше, если его разрезать на две части после zoos здесь.

  Готово. Длинные предложения — один из моих самых больших грехов. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение — вклад — библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• продолжил исследовать свое прошлое в поисках автобиографического материала : я думаю, что MOS:CLICHE применим здесь.

  Подрезано, хотя я не уверен, что теперь это звучит хорошо. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Он получил OBE в 1982 году : это я очень педантичный, и, вероятно, даже более педантичный, чем большинство HQRS, но технически OBE — это учреждение, а не персональный титул. The Gazette использует «назначен офицером Ордена Британской империи» vel sim .

  Я использовал "became"; это работает? Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Да, хотя я все еще испытываю искушение произнести это по буквам, так как многие люди (неправильно) прочтут OBE как «Орден Британской империи». UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 07:37, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Думаю, я оставлю все как есть, если вы не против — я редко возражаю против педантизма, но технически правильные формулировки немного громоздки и удивят большинство читателей. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение — вклад — библиотека ) 11:46, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Не проблема. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 14:13, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Отец Даррелла настаивал на том, чтобы Луиза соответствовала общепринятым ожиданиям , но она была более независимой, чем большинство женщин той эпохи . Она проводила много времени со своим поваром, училась готовить карри и прошла обучение на медсестру. : тон здесь просто кажется мне немного странным: немного похоже, что это было написано викторианцем , а не о нем. В любом случае, разве все это действительно так необычно для этого периода времени? Это 1920-е годы, а не 1820-е — культура флэпперов в полном разгаре, и такие люди, как Вирджиния Вульф , Эммелин Панкхерст и Джейн Эллен Харрисон, вступают в средний и пожилой возраст, и, конечно, многие женщины работали медсестрами и в традиционно мужских ролях во время Первой мировой войны. Мне нужно немного убедить, что иметь профессию и общаться со слугами было действительно чем-то исключительным.

  Я думаю, что англо-индийское (это прилагательное, которое я всегда видел, независимо от этнической принадлежности) сообщество в Индии в то время было более решительно британским, чем сами британцы — оттенки Passage to India и Burmese Days . Именно такое впечатление производит Боттинг: он говорит о Луизе: «Как англо-индианка, она меньше беспокоилась о своем возвышенном статусе, чем среднестатистическая белая мемсахиб, проводившая свое время на субконтиненте в состоянии отчужденного изгнания. Будучи молодой женщиной, она бросила вызов условностям и выучилась на медсестру, и даже мыла полы (неслыханное дело для белой женщины в Индии того времени)». Боттинг продолжает упоминать разговоры со слугами и обучение приготовлению карри. Хааг цитирует интервью с женщиной, которая знала Дарреллов, когда она была девочкой на Корфу в тридцатые годы; она довольно жестко их осуждает, говоря, что Дарреллы вели себя не так, как ожидалось от английской семьи в колониальной среде. Я не думаю, что Боттинг является экспертом по англо-индийским социальным нормам, но мне кажется разумным, что Дарреллы не были типичными представителями своего сообщества. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  С этим можно не спорить, но я думаю, нам нужно прояснить это немного больше. На данный момент мы предполагаем, что большинство женщин 1920-х годов не были независимыми, не обучались на медсестер и не имели ничего общего с прислугой, что трудно принять. Звучит так, как будто Боттинг контекстуализирует это в очень специфическом аристократическом англо-индийском контексте, чего мы (пока) не делаем. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 07:39, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Перефразировано, чтобы сделать это более понятным. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 11:33, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Anglo-English : что-то здесь не так. «Anglo-Irish» было бы очевидным исправлением, но это не имеет особого смысла — звучит так, как будто мы имеем в виду «английских родителей, живущих в Индии» или «английских родителей определенного социального класса».

  Это просто рассеянность; я переключил на англо-индийский, что и имел в виду. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• В семье была няня (айя), которая помогала воспитывать детей . Думаю, стоит пояснить, что айя — это именно индийская служанка, что помогает объяснить наличие (предположительно европейской?) католической гувернантки.

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• его отец купил дом в Далвиче, недалеко от того места, где учились оба старших мальчика : в колледже Далвича ? Если так, то, я думаю, стоит упомянуть: это довольно элитная школа, которая кое-что говорит о социальном положении семьи.

  Лоуренс учился в гимназии Св. Олава (куда, кстати, ходил и я); куда ходила Лесли, я не знаю, а Боттинг не приводит подробностей. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• когда он был со своей няней однажды : выделяйте няню курсивом постоянно.

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Джеральда это почти не затронуло, поскольку у него не было эмоциональной связи с отцом ; возможно, важнее то, что ему было всего три года!

  Ну, да, но Боттинг утверждает, что старший Лоуренс следовал викторианской рутине отца и видел Джеральда только полчаса в день. Боттинг цитирует Даррелла: «Должен признаться, что кончина моего отца не оказала на меня никакого или почти никакого влияния, поскольку он был далекой фигурой», за которой следуют некоторые незначительные воспоминания, а Даррелл говорит, что он был ближе к своей матери и своей няне . Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 02:53, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Я думаю, что было бы неплохо включить последнюю деталь: на данный момент мы представляем это почти как недостаток со стороны Джеральда (как будто он сам был отчужден или оторван), а не как естественное следствие родительского воспитания Лоуренса. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 07:41, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Добавлен. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 11:34, 13 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Я вижу, что для англо-индийских родителей было обычным делом видеть своих детей немного выше, и Джеральд едва ли пострадал, так как был гораздо ближе к своей матери и своей няне, чем к отцу . Оба эти утверждения гораздо слабее того, что вы здесь сказали, о том, что Лоуренс решил видеться с Джеральдом только полчаса в день, и последнее все еще возлагает бремя на ребенка, а не на отца. Есть ли у нас источники, чтобы сказать, что Лоуренс решил едва ли участвовать в жизни Джеральда? UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 07:46, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Я так не думаю. Боттинг говорит, что он «по всем показателям был порядочным, но довольно далеким и часто отсутствующим для своих детей, поскольку его работа инженером заставила его пересечь всю Британскую Индию вдоль и поперек...», что приписывает дистанцию ​​больше его работе, чем его склонностям. Боттинг также говорит, что «хотя он был прямым слугой империи, он не был полностью обычным; он жил не как британцы, а как англо-индийцы, и он вышел из своего клуба, когда индийский врач, получивший образование в Оксфорде, которого он предложил вступить в клуб, был забаллотирован», поэтому я не думаю, что мы можем сказать, что это было обычным викторианским поведением. Цитируется Маргарет: «В те дни дети видели своих родителей только тогда, когда их представляли им в четыре часа на семейном чаепитии... наша жизнь вращалась вокруг детской и нашей индуистской няни и католической гувернантки. Джерри больше занимался няней, чем мы, старшие дети». Полчаса взяты из цитаты Джеральда: «Я видел его дважды в день по полчаса, и он рассказывал мне истории о трех медведях. Я знал, что он мой папа, но я был в гораздо более близких отношениях с Матерью и моей няней , чем с отцом». Я не вижу там ничего, что говорило бы о мотивах старшего Лоуренса. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 19:07, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Нет, конечно, и мы вряд ли можем предположить, что четырехлетний Джеральд рассчитывал эти взаимодействия по минутам. Я думаю, у нас достаточно оснований утверждать, что он часто отсутствовал. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 20:49, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Добавлено. Я поместил это вместе с описанием его смерти, что имеет небольшой недостаток, поскольку заставляет предложение перейти в плюсквамперфект. Я мог бы переместить это раньше, туда, где я даю работу Лоуренсу, но поскольку релевантность заключается в эффекте его смерти на Джеральда, я думаю, что это лучше там. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 22:56, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Она начала пить : Это своего рода эвфемизм: Я думаю, нам следует быть более прямыми. Аналогично, позже, временно освободившись от привычки пить, она немного цветиста (и, возможно, морализирует?) сторону.

  Я сбит с толку языком Боттинга. Он цитирует Даррелла, который говорит, что его мать начала «прибегать к бутылке все чаще и чаще», а затем Боттинг говорит: «В конце концов, дела дошли до кризиса», и снова цитирует Даррелла, используя эвфемизм «нервный срыв». Я не думаю, что могу использовать это, чтобы сказать, что она была алкоголичкой или лечилась от алкоголизма. Я согласен с вами, что язык Даррелла эвфемистичен, но я не хочу выходить за рамки того, что он на самом деле говорит. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Обычным решением здесь было бы обратиться к Боттину: что-то вроде «Даррелл позже писал, что его мать «начала прибегать к [...]»; по словам Боттинга, «дело достигло кризиса» в 19XX году, когда...» UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 07:42, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Мне было сложно лавировать между чрезмерным цитированием и чрезмерной интерпретацией, но я попробовал это сделать. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 11:43, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Когда ему было девять, его отшлепал директор, и мать забрала его из школы : это я нахожу интересным: это было бы совершенно нормально в те дни, и, конечно, гораздо позже. Есть ли какие-либо указания на то, почему и Даррелл, и Луиза так бурно отреагировали здесь — было ли это просто последней каплей?

  Я думаю, Луиза избаловала его, и он вообще не привык к школьной дисциплине — в свои девять лет он не прожил четыре года в школе, как большинство детей, и я полагаю, что он привык добиваться своего. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Лоуренс и его партнерша Нэнси переехали к Луизе и Джеральду примерно в конце 1934 года, когда друзья, у которых они жили, Джордж и Пэм Уилкинсон, эмигрировали на Корфу : проясним предысторию здесь.

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• дом в Пераме : в поисках потенциального МИЛ я обнаружил, что на Корфу есть (или были) две деревни с таким названием: я думаю, что эта  [sv] является наиболее вероятным кандидатом, поскольку вторая не была известна под этим названием до 1960-х годов.

  Кажется, это то, что нужно — недалеко к югу от города Корфу, подходящее под описание. Готово. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:12, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Греко-британский врач : здесь, я думаю, конец, поскольку он был одновременно греком и британцем, а не был в первую очередь британцем, но также и отчасти греком (как в «афроамериканце» или «швейцарце-немце»).

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Стефанидис проводил полдня каждую неделю с Джеральдом, гуляя с ним по сельской местности : мог проводить с ним время , как подразумевается в предыдущем предложении.

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Анри Фабр : в источниках, по-видимому, повсеместно упоминается Жан Анри Фабр : Анри Фабр — летчик.

  Готово, с дефисом вместо пробела, как в нашей статье; нет возражений против замены на пробел, если это обычная форма. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Его призвали на войну в конце 1942 года, но его освободили от воинской повинности по медицинским показаниям : не из-за проблем с пазухами носа? Кажется, это довольно легкое недомогание, чтобы отказать кому-то в военной службе, учитывая напряжённую ситуацию.

  Даррелл рассказывает забавную историю об этом; похоже, что его пазухи были действительно потрясающе плохи, но он также приводит разговор с врачом, который освободил его, в котором он признался врачу, что не хотел драться, и врач сказал, что его это устраивает. Поскольку Даррелл иногда был верен повествовательному интересу, а не точности в своих воспоминаниях, я решил пропустить эту деталь в статье. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Ему предоставили возможность работать на военном заводе или найти работу на ферме . Я бы хотел уточнить, кто дал ему эту возможность: похоже, его специально для этого призвали ?

  Видимо, это работало так: после медицинского осмотра человек получал письмо с результатами, и именно это письмо давало ему варианты. Я перефразировал, чтобы сделать это более понятным. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Биограф Даррелла, Боттинг, говорит, что Даррелл сломал руку, когда отделял африканского буйволенка от матери, но в автобиографическом отчете самого Даррелла это происходит во время содержания антилопы гну в клетке : мы выбрали Даррелла вместо Боттинг, что немного опасно: автобиографии людей часто неточны по разным причинам. Если только опубликованный источник не сделал того же самого, я думаю, нам нужно избегать вынесения суждений: мы можем сказать, что у него были обе задачи, и что рука была сломана, но не различать две истории о том, какая из них сломала ее.

  Да, справедливо; я сказал выше, что воспоминания самого Даррелла не являются автоматически правдивыми, и мне следовало бы быть здесь более осторожным. Перефразировано. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Продолжение следует. Это, несомненно, превосходная статья, хотя я должен признать, что мои придирки к тону остаются: я беспокоюсь, что она немного слишком далека от того типа письма, которое сам Даррелл мог бы написать о своей жизни, а не от бесстрастного энциклопедического ее изложения. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 22:10, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Отвечу на ваши замечания позже, но просто короткое замечание, чтобы сказать, что как давний читатель работ Даррелла я не должен удивляться, что пишу немного под его влиянием. Когда я буду читать с учетом ваших замечаний, я посмотрю, смогу ли я также убрать часть этого тона. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 22:56, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Теперь ответил на все пункты; еще не проработал тон. Думаю, мне будет трудно это заметить, но я постараюсь сделать все возможное; буду признателен за любые указания на проблему, которые вы дадите, пока читаете. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 03:48, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Это не главная проблема, и я не хотел бы лишать статью блеска. Я пройдусь по ней и выберу те части, где отличительный голос сильнее всего. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 07:43, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Перечитывая части, которые я вчера комментировал, я думаю, что возьму свои слова о тоне — возможно, благодаря недавним правкам он кажется почти правильным. Выделю все, что выделяется, по мере продвижения вперед. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 07:46, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• был приглашен в зоопарк на встречу с суперинтендантом Джеффри Виверсом : старый добрый MOS:PEOPLETITLES - здесь обезглавленный суперинтендант .

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Во время интервью Даррелл «нескончаемо болтал о животных, коллекционировании животных и моем собственном зоопарке», как он позже выразился : не совсем понятно, Даррелл он или Виверс.

  Сделано так, «как позже выразился Даррелл» — мне не очень нравится повторение «Даррелл», но я не вижу менее неуклюжего способа сделать это. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Вымирание таких животных, как додо, странствующий голубь и квагга, ужаснуло его, и он понял, что зоопарки мало заинтересованы в решении проблем исчезающих видов : Интересно, не несправедливы ли мы здесь немного, особенно в последней части. Ни одно из этих животных не вымерло из -за зоопарков: дело не столько в том, что зоопарки сидели сложа руки, сколько в том, что никто не считал сохранение природы чем-то, что входит в компетенцию зоопарка. Это немного похоже на то, как если бы кто-то был потрясен тем, что музеи ничего не делают для решения проблемы детского ожирения: тот факт, что мы теперь считаем, что зоопарки должны пытаться остановить вымирание видов, во многом является следствием того, что Даррелл сделал позже.

  Я сделал это "он понял, что большинство зоопарков считают себя площадками для показа животных, а не научными учреждениями, которые могли бы играть роль в решении проблем исчезающих видов". Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Не уверен, что когда-либо видел слово showplace ! Погуглив, его основное значение, похоже, — место, которое само по себе выставлено напоказ (например, особенно шикарное здание), а не место, содержимое которого интересно. Не могу сразу придумать хороший синоним, но уверен, что вы сможете. Нам также нужно множественное число для учреждений . UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 19:59, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Я удивлен, но я посмотрел на ngram этого слова по сравнению с showroom, и оно, похоже, постепенно выходит из употребления, так что, возможно, другие читатели тоже не узнают это слово. Я перефразировал (и исправил множественное число). Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 22:52, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• многие из которых не хотели передавать то, что знали, в любом случае, чтобы защитить свою работу : Я думаю, это могло бы быть более плавно. Предложите вырезать «в любом случае» и перефразировать, чтобы сделать порядок менее двусмысленным (мы говорим, что, чтобы защитить свою работу, они отказались помогать другим, или что они отказались помогать другим, даже когда это могло бы защитить их работу?). Кажется, что здесь есть два момента: сотрудники не знали очень много, и они не говорили о том немногом, что знали. Может быть, будет яснее разделить эти два момента немного больше?

  Перефразировано; я опустил вопрос о том, почему сотрудники не хотели передавать свои знания, поскольку, по-видимому, это домыслы Даррелла, и в любом случае это не имеет особого значения. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Выглядит хорошо (я сделал несколько небольших CE здесь). UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 19:56, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• У Даррелла были хорошие друзья среди женщин-хранителей : во многих руководствах по стилю «женщина X» предпочтительнее, чем «женщина X»; последнее читается как устаревшее и иногда покровительственное (ср. Женщина-полицейский-констебль ). Здесь есть досадная возможность, что «женщина-хранитель» похожа на «хранителя львов»...

  Измененный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• женщина в Лондоне, которую он в своих произведениях называет только Джульеттой : рассмотрим «Джульетту» согласно MOS:WORDSASWORDS , и для ясности следует отметить, что это может быть псевдоним.

  Хорошая идея; сделано. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• в лодке, полученной от немцев из-за войны : несколько вещей здесь. Какие немцы? В том виде, в котором она написана, эта фраза не совсем означает то, что должна: мы сказали, что он получил ее из-за войны, но, несомненно, война была причиной того, что эти немцы ее потеряли (была ли она реквизирована/захвачена/конфискована?), предположительно, по крайней мере, двумя годами ранее, а не причиной, по которой ее получил Даррелл ?

  Я вырезал эти детали; изначально я включил названия и описания кораблей, которые они брали для этих ранних экспедиций, но вырезал их, чтобы сократить объем статьи. Это осталось, и я не думаю, что это нужно. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• изучение пиджина : рассмотрите «местный диалект»: пиджин охватывает множество смешанных языков во многих местах и ​​часто рассматривается как уничижительный.

  Я изменил его на «камерунский пиджин»; насколько я могу судить, это местное название. См. Cameroonian Pidgin English , где приводятся другие названия «того, что камерунцы называют Cameroon Pidgin English», и цитируются лингвистические тексты 2008 и 2017 годов, в которых используется это название. Я понимаю, что вы имеете в виду, говоря о негативных коннотациях этого слова, но технически это не был диалект. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Хороший компромисс — также я понимаю вашу точку зрения по поводу того, чтобы называть это «диалектом» (без армии или флота). UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 12:22, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• для возвращения в Мамфе потребовалось шестьдесят носильщиков, чтобы перевезти их все : является ли перевозчик человеком или ящиком?

  Это человек. Я пытался избежать как «носильщиков», ассоциирующихся с Великими Белыми Охотниками на сафари, так и «местных носильщиков», что было бы недвусмысленно, но могло бы быть лучшим решением, несмотря на риск того, что «местный» оскорбит некоторых читателей. Подойдет ли «местные носильщики»? Или «по возвращении в Мамфе ему пришлось нанять шестьдесят носильщиков, чтобы ...»? Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Как насчет "шестьдесят человек, которых нужно нести..."? UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 12:14, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Да, сделано, хотя я понял, что в предыдущем предложении есть ссылка, которую также пришлось изменить. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 19:21, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• пока он был там, охотник принес ангвантибо, одно из животных, которое он больше всего хотел заполучить, так как знал, что Лондонский зоопарк хотел их заполучить : много он здесь. Предложите немного распутать: Даррелл или охотник действительно хотели заполучить ангвантибо?

  Это был Даррелл; исправлено. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• На что -- мы не очень хорошо обслуживаем изображениями этих существ! Вы когда-нибудь рассматривали этот рисунок ? Черно-белое фото не очень хорошо передает животное, но тогда я могу увидеть весомый аргумент в пользу фотографии, а не рисунка в принципе.

  Я посмотрел, но думаю, что фотографии будут более полезны для читателя, если они есть, а изображение angwantibo довольно четкое, хотя оно было бы лучше в цвете. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Мысль: как насчет использования шаблона с несколькими изображениями, чтобы они располагались рядом друг с другом? UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 12:14, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Готово. Мне нравится, как это выглядит, но я, возможно, сделал его слишком широким на 400 пикселей; дайте мне знать, если это будет выглядеть странно на вашем экране. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 19:44, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Я внес здесь небольшое редактирование, пожалуйста, верните его, если это не улучшение (размер 300 пикселей и нижний колонтитул вместо двух подписей, что означает, что у нас большая доля изображения в целом). UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 19:54, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Продолжение следует. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 07:46, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Спасибо; в основном исправлено, с парой вопросов выше. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 10:37, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Произвольный перерыв

• Вскоре после этого в Камерун прибыл Сесил Уэбб, известный коллекционер животных, намереваясь поймать ангвантибо : насколько я могу судить, множественное число слова ангвантибо — ангвантибос (см., например, здесь, стр. 209).

  Изменено — я проверил, и Даррелл и Боттинг независимо друг от друга используют «angwantibo» во множественном числе, но поскольку форма с «s» принимается, это менее удивительный выбор. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение — вклад — библиотека ) 23:14, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• он считал Даррелла и Йелланда любителями : это было, строго говоря, верно. Есть ли лучший способ выразить это, который ближе подходит к предполагаемым «некомпетентным»?

  Я не уверен, что это строго правда — они заранее договаривались с зоопарками, и хотя зоопарки не давали им денег авансом, они делали это за плату. Как вы говорите, это тот подтекст, который я ищу. Формулировка Боттинга такова, что Уэбб считал их «новичками и выскочками»; я думаю, что «некомпетентные» — это слишком сильное слово, чтобы его можно было так назвать. Я написал «неопытные и дилетантские»; это работает? Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 23:14, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Экспедиция была успешной, но не прибыльной; она поглотила половину наследства Даррелла : Я предполагаю, что это после любого дохода от продажи животных? Возможно, стоит напомнить нам, о какой сумме денег мы здесь говорим (я думаю, это был бы обычный расчет, разрешенный WP:OR ).

  Да, после продажи животных. Я согласен с обычным расчетом, но кажется проще просто повторить сумму наследства: "половина наследства Даррелла в размере ₤3000". Я не повторял преобразование инфляции, так как оно есть в следующем предложении с простым соотношением к этому. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 23:14, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Кен Смит согласился стать партнёром Даррелла : не уверен, что видел, чтобы этот глагол использовался именно в таком значении (а не в качестве переходного: «быть партнёром кого-то с кем-то ещё»): быть партнёром Даррелла , если только я просто не пропустил распространенное употребление?

  Изменено на «присоединиться»; я думаю, что это допустимое использование, но, как и везде, я думаю, что если это звучит странно для вас, то это будет звучать странно и для других. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 23:14, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• где Фон, Ахиримби II, царь местности : это не совсем правильно сформулировано. Если Фон означает «царь» (более или менее), мы не хотим затем придавать ему значение «царь местности». Может ли Ахримби II, местный Фон ( ' царь ' ) ?

  Имя Фона на самом деле не нужно указывать в строке, так как я не использую его далее в статье (Даррелл и Боттинг вообще его не используют; он просто «Фон» на протяжении всей статьи). Я сделал его «Фон (местный правитель)» и добавил сноску, в которой указано его имя. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 23:29, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• дополняя то, что он получал от охот, на которые он отправлялся : снова, здесь много «он». «Из его собственных охот»? Даже тогда может быть не ясно, является ли «он» Дарреллом или Фоном.

  Надеюсь, понятно. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 23:29, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• двое мужчин осушили его в течение вечера : считайте, что выпили или закончили : это немного образный язык, который может сбить с толку человека, не являющегося носителем языка (речь идет о каком-то ритуале возлияния?)

  Я заставил его «выпить». Это один из тех моментов «тона», о которых вы упомянули; для таких читателей Даррелла, как я, ночь, когда Даррелл встречается и выпивает с Фоном, является памятным событием, и я мысленно перешел в литературное, а не энциклопедическое состояние ума. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 23:29, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• требующая экстренной поездки в Беменду : где это было?

  Сорок миль отсюда; я добавил это. Это была пятичасовая поездка в вагоне Фона, и Даррелл подвергся бы серьезному риску смерти, если бы они не получили антисыворотку, но я вырезал детали как красочные и не строго необходимые. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 23:43, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Они знали, что приобретение одного из самых ценных животных немедленно решит их финансовые проблемы : ну, не сразу — сначала им придется благополучно доставить животное обратно в Великобританию.

  Да, справедливо. Снято. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 23:43, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Когда они сошли на берег, Даррелл и Смит уже планировали еще одну поездку : возможно, немного поэтизируя здесь. Буквально, когда они сходили с лодки, или примерно во время их возвращения?

  Почти дословно: Даррелл рассказывает прессе о плане, когда они дают интервью, пришвартовавшись в Ливерпуле, прямо перед тем, как сойти с корабля. Но я согласен, что не обязательно быть таким поэтичным, так перефразировать. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 23:43, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Большинство животных пережили путешествие, но последняя белка-летяга умерла всего через день после причаливания в Ливерпуле 25 августа : разве у нас не было десятков таких существ несколько абзацев назад? Мы были довольно беспечны в отношении того, что звучит как очень темный день в истории белок-летяг.

  Да, действительно. История этих белок-летяг (сейчас их называют летучими мышами, хотя тогда, я думаю, это было не так) — один из самых запоминающихся эпизодов в книге о путешествии. У него их было 42, если я правильно помню, и я мог бы легко расширить этот раздел, чтобы рассказать больше об этой истории — их поимка была приключением, а затем найти что-то, что они съели бы, было сложно. В конце концов они проявили готовность есть авокадо, и Дарреллу пришлось уговаривать судового кока дать ему немного авокадо, которые капитан корабля взял на борт для его собственного рациона. Они умирали по двое и по трое по пути домой, несмотря на все его усилия. Я снова опустил это из соображений длины. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 23:43, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Экспедиция привезла несколько видов, ранее не встречавшихся в Британии : было бы неплохо, если бы мы могли указать некоторые из них.

  Боттинг говорит: «Лондонский [зоопарк] забрал некоторые редкости, представляющие особый научный интерес, многие из которых никогда ранее не встречались живыми в Британии, включая волосатую лягушку и большое количество насекомых». Затем следует цитата из новостной статьи, в которой волосатая лягушка упоминается как «первое существо такого рода, когда-либо привезенное в эту страну». Даррелл поймал волосатую лягушку во время предыдущей поездки, хотя, возможно, она не пережила поездку домой — Даррелл не упоминает о ней в «Перегруженном ковчеге »; подробности Боттинга взяты из дневника Даррелла. Я думаю, этого достаточно, чтобы упомянуть лягушку, и я это сделал, хотя теперь мне интересно, вспомнит ли читатель, что в предыдущей поездке упоминалось то же самое животное. Может быть, лучше удалить более раннее упоминание? Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:12, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• где он навестил Тайни МакТёрка на его ранчо : ...кто?

  Насколько я могу судить, МакТурки были известной британской семьей в этом районе — поиск в Google по запросу «mcturk guiana» (или «guyana») находит множество ссылок. Я думаю, что МакТурки, скорее всего, будут известны, но, возможно, сейчас не время беспокоиться об этом, поэтому я удалил ссылку. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 02:12, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• У нас есть длинная цитата из Джеки Вулфенден в абзаце ее введения. Я думаю, ее можно было бы лучше встроить в прозу абзаца, но нам определенно нужно четко указать, когда она это написала и в каком контексте. Из цитаты следует, что это цитата из ее автобиографии 1967 года?

  Да, теперь напрямую приписано. Мне нравится цитата, и я думаю, что перефразирование лишило бы ее эмоциональной прямоты. Как вы думаете, стоит ли ее сократить? Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 02:12, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Дэвид Аттенборо, еще одна восходящая звезда в мире естественной истории : было ли это совершенно верно в 1950 году? Он только что уволился из ВМС и еще не работал на BBC как следует; я думаю, его первая программа по естественной истории вышла в 1953 году.

  Комментарий Аттенборо был позже; формулировка была неуклюжей, поскольку не подразумевала, что Аттенборо сделал комментарий в то время. Проверяя цитаты Боттинга, я вижу, что на самом деле это было намного позже, поэтому я вырезал его; нам не нужно подтверждение Аттенборо, что Даррелл был прав. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:32, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• она могла свободно выйти замуж без разрешения родителей : здесь нужен апостроф. Я был удивлен, обнаружив, что это оставалось верным до конца 1980-х годов.

  Апостроф добавлен. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:32, 15 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Супруги Дарреллы начали свой брак в крошечной квартирке в доме Маргарет в Борнмуте : возможно, это напомнит нам, кем была Маргарет; это было давно.

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:32, 15 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Джеки присоединилась к нему и начала «изучать содержание животных трудным путем», помогая кормить животных и ухаживать за ними. : цитаты всегда должны быть указаны внутри: чьи это слова?

  Приписывается. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:32, 15 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Джеки знала, что Джеральд был замечательным рассказчиком : как насчет того, чтобы считать Г. замечательным рассказчиком , что поддается проверке, тогда как нынешняя формулировка таковой не является?

  Да, мои собственные предубеждения здесь проявляются. Готово. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:32, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Плата была приветственная в пятнадцать гиней : сколько это было? Я бы сократил приветственную для тона.

  Вырезано, и эквивалент дан. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:32, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• эквивалент 120,00 фунтов стерлингов в 2023 году : не думаю, что нам нужны здесь десятичные знаки (ложная точность).

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:32, 15 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• сделать книгу развлекательной и юмористической, а не скучной и фактической : я не думаю, что какой-либо писатель хочет сделать свою работу скучной, хотя я знаю, что обычно мне это удаётся с помощью моих рецензий на FAC.

  Даррелл на самом деле сказал: «Я старался, во-первых, не быть скучным», но я понимаю вашу точку зрения. Изменено на «просто факты». Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:32, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Завершенный машинописный текст под названием «Перегруженный ковчег» был отправлен в издательство Faber & Faber с сопроводительным письмом, в котором упоминалось, что Лоуренс был братом Джеральда . Я думаю, лучше было бы сказать наоборот: «что Джеральд был братом Лоуренса» (потому что F&F знали Лоуренса, но не Джеральда).

  Да, сделано. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:32, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Кертис Браун, личный агент Лоуренса, в конце 1952 года. Они читают... : есть ли способ сделать это так, чтобы Кертис Браун не звучал как имя человека, и чтобы мы не удивлялись множественному числу они ? Вставить слово агентство куда-нибудь?

  На самом деле, это был Спенсер Кертис Браун, сын Кертиса Брауна, основавшего агентство. Я написал это, ссылаясь на агентство, но это сбивает с толку, я согласен. Я попытался обойти это, указав полное имя Спенсера и удалив ссылку на сноску. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 02:59, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• гранки : Мне пришлось поискать это: wikilink по крайней мере, я думаю.

  Сделанный. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 02:59, 15 ноября 2024 г. (UTC) [ ответить ]

• продано Руперту Харт-Дэвису : кто это был? Кстати, мы имеем в виду человека или компанию?
• В диалогах книги использовался пиджин : BrE предпочитает диалог . Вы все еще довольны пиджином , учитывая вышеизложенное обсуждение?
• Случайный обзор, вызывающий сомнение : вы имеете в виду "небольшое количество обзоров"? Из-за формулировки сложно определить, о каком количестве идет речь.
• Секретарь Софи Кук была нанята, чтобы помочь с приготовлениями, все делалось в крошечной квартире в доме Маргарет в Борнмуте. Их корабль отплыл из Тилбери : отправилась ли Кук в путешествие? Использование «их» заставляет думать, что она это сделала, но все остальное в этом разделе указывает на другое. Предложите, если нет, «Дарреллы покинули Тилбери на корабле...»
• в случае, если помещения были тесными и неприятными, лодка грязной, а еда отвратительной : по крайней мере, последнее из этих утверждений является вопросом мнения, поэтому нам нужно сформулировать это как таковое или использовать проверяемое утверждение, например: «Даррелл нашел еду отвратительной».
• Начиная новый абзац, лучше не использовать местоимение (например, «они»), антецедент которого находится в предыдущем абзаце: вместо этого перефразируйте существительное(ые).
• Когда они планировали тысячемильное путешествие обратно в Буэнос-Айрес, они узнали, что в Асунсьоне, столице Парагвая, произошла революция : Я пытаюсь сопоставить это и выяснить, о чем мы говорим. Это парагвайский переворот 1954 года ? Если так, то «революция», вероятно, не то слово.
• Джеки и Софи приходилось постоянно его пилить : я бы нашел более подходящее слово, чем «пилить» , которое имеет очень гендерный и довольно презрительный оттенок.
• Ссылка на отель Savoy ?
• иллюстрирование выступления рисунками-молниями : что это за рисунки? Вы имеете в виду, что он создал их импровизированно ?

(Боюсь, что дальше будет еще больше.) UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 21:32, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Дирижабль

Трилогия «Корфу» — моя неизменная любимая книга. Комментарии будут позже.

Я имею в виду, главное, как отмечено в номинации, Botting: есть ли в его работе какие-либо нарушения, или получены ли отрицательные отзывы, или что-то в этом роде? Я думаю, что его следует считать по сути неприкосновенным для соблюдения FACR 1b) и c). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk ) 17:58, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Единственная неточность, о которой я знаю в Botting, прокомментирована в примечании 9, и она очень незначительна. Botting получил доступ ко всем файлам Даррелла и бумагам в зоопарке и взял интервью у всех соответствующих людей, которые были еще живы, насколько я могу судить. Я согласен, что статья должна быть принята или отклонена в зависимости от того, принят ли Botting в качестве источника высшего качества, но я не знаю никаких проблем с этим. Майк Кристи ( talk - contribs - library ) 19:08, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Я прочитал только пару рецензий на Botting, что является моей небрежностью; теперь я прочитал все, что смог найти на newspapers.com, а именно большинство хороших британских газет и несколько канадских и австралийских, и все они положительные. Несколько хвалят Botting, но большинство просто говорят о Даррелле. Однако есть отрицательный отзыв в NYT. Некоторые из замечаний рецензента на самом деле не имеют отношения к статье, но вы можете подумать, что некоторые имеют. Вот они:

• Боттинг «не дотягивает до голоса Даррелла как рассказчика. Например, мы так и не узнаем предысторию вражды Кэнсдейла с Дарреллом, а рассказ о яростном противодействии разведению животных в неволе со стороны последующего руководителя Лондонского зоопарка также искажен. Когда один из учеников Даррелла в конечном итоге становится директором Лондонского зоопарка, то, что должно было стать моментом триумфа и оправдания, вместо этого оказывается сноской».

  Я думаю, что первые два из них — странные жалобы: Боттинг цитирует Джеки Даррелл о предыстории вражды Кэнсдейла с Дарреллом и подробно цитирует главу Лондонского зоопарка (инцидент, который я не включил в статью, так как она и так очень длинная). Это не истории, рассказанные только собственными словами Боттинга, то есть он цитирует, а не просто ссылается. Третий пункт, о акценте на победе точки зрения Даррелла, — это акцент, а не точность; опять же, это не то, что я включил в статью, так как если бы я слишком далеко зашел в мир политики сохранения природы, статья раздулась бы еще больше.

• «Боттинг также портит трогательную историю второго брака Даррелла»: здесь рецензент жалуется на то, что Боттинг просто цитирует соответствующие источники, а не рассказывает историю сложных эмоций тех двух лет. Это справедливо для читабельности, но для меня это не вызывает сомнений в точности.
• «Однако, настоящее разочарование этой биографии заключается в том, что Боттинг, похоже, не понимает или не слишком заботится о работе Даррелла с животными». Я согласен с этим, но не уверен, что это сильно влияет на достоверность того, что цитируется в книге. Я использовал некоторые из собственных книг Даррелла, чтобы добавить упоминание о некоторых животных в нескольких местах, но я воздержался от подробностей об успехах размножения в зоопарке Джерси, например. Это могло бы стать отдельной статьей, и, возможно, должно быть таковым. Я мог бы добавить немного больше об этом, если рецензенты сочтут это необходимым.

Дайте мне знать, что вы думаете. Майк Кристи ( обсуждение - вклад - библиотека ) 22:55, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Комментарии от Тима Райли

С первого галопа по орфографии и т.д.:

• «умер от кровоизлияния в мозг» — обычное написание на BrE — «геморрагия»
• «несколько дней, поиск дома» – Оксфордский словарь английского языка и Чемберс пишут через дефис «охота за домом»
• "handrear четырех новорожденных оленей Пэра Давида" – то же самое для "hand-rear"
• «разрешение родителей» — отсутствует притяжательный апостроф
• «он путешествовал с животными» — американское написание; обычная английская форма — «travelled».

Подробнее позже, после надлежащего прочтения содержания. Выступление Тима Райли 23:52, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Осада Бретейля

Номинатор(ы): Гог Мягкий ( обс .) 23:53, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Прошло 18 месяцев с тех пор, как я номинировал статью на FAC. Очевидно, пора вернуться к работе. Я работаю над парой статей для начального класса, но, копаясь в своем разросшемся разделе дел, я наткнулся на эту статью, которая попала в класс A, но так и не получила своего часа здесь. Я просмотрел ее, немного привел в порядок и считаю, что она может быть готова. Несколько недель в 1356 году военным центром Западной Европы было малоизвестное укрепление в Нормандии. Затем все пошло дальше. Я думаю, что собрал самую полную статью об этом слегка странном событии и о том, как оно произошло. Как всегда, все комментарии, предложения и жалобы приветствуются. Gog the Mild ( обсуждение ) 23:53, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

ВЧ

Я постараюсь взглянуть на это в ближайшее время. Hog Farm _Talk 17:33, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Ссылка Шевоше Черного Принца 1356 года во главе?

Ого! Спасибо. Готово.

• "был город, окруженный стеной, с мощной цитаделью, построенный примерно 300 лет назад" - 300 лет назад относится к городу или к цитадели? Фраза предполагает цитадель, но даты в сноске допускают максимум 250 лет

У вас орлиный глаз. Не могли бы вы проверить все мои статьи, пожалуйста. Цитадель, хотя нужно внимательно читать источник. Теперь прояснено. Сноска была как-то отнесена не к тому городу. Как только я перечитал ее с открытым умом, я понял, что я сделал. Теперь разобрался. (Бретей - был "построен ... в середине одиннадцатого века".)

• «Город был близок к падению, так как французам почти удалось заложить мины под его стены». — город или цитадель?

Не указано. Если бы мне пришлось угадывать, я думаю, что источник имеет в виду город, но это не совсем ясно, поэтому я бы предпочел оставить это немного неопределенным в статье.

Кажется, это немного противоречит тому, что ранее в статье говорится, что «Город Понт-Одеме пал под натиском французских войск под командованием Робера де Удето, но, как и в случае с Эврё, цитадель выстояла. Удето приказал атаковать цитадель, но это не удалось; поэтому он заложил мины под ее стены, пытаясь их подорвать». Мне кажется странным заявлять ранее в статье, что город пал, но они пытались заложить мины под стены цитадели, но когда Ланкастер прибывает в Понт-Одеме 30 июня, город был только близок к падению, и французы пытаются заложить мины под стены города. Hog Farm _Talk 23:05, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Вагнер 2006a и 2006b имеют одинаковые диапазоны страниц в длинных цитатах.

Слишком много копирования и вставки. Исправлено.

• Имеется ссылка на "Wagner 2006a p. 20", страница 20 выходит за рамки диапазона страниц, предусмотренного для всех четырех длинных цитат Wagner 2006
• Имеется ссылка на Wagner 2006c, стр. 142-143, но она выходит за рамки диапазона страниц, указанных в длинной цитате для Wagner 2006c (160-164).

Вы меня потеряли, HF. Wagner 2006 начинается с p 1 и заканчивается p 374. (Плюс i до lv в начале *закатываю глаза*.) Указанные диапазоны страниц относятся к указанной записи. Как мне это сделать? (Я использовал Wagner таким образом как минимум в 20 предыдущих FACS.)

По Вагнеру - статья конкретно цитирует 4 главы из Вагнера. Стр. 20 и стр. 142-143 не попадают ни в один из диапазонов страниц для глав Вагнера, используемых в настоящее время. На самом деле статья должна либо просто ссылаться на Вагнера как на отдельную книгу (предполагая, что он написал ее целиком), либо включать длинные цитаты на две главы, которые содержат стр. 20 и стр. 142-143, поскольку эти главы цитируются, но никогда явно не идентифицируются. Я думаю, что второй вариант, вероятно, более элегантный. Hog Farm _Talk 23:05, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Думаю, на этом всё. Hog Farm _Talk 03:49, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Привет, HF , и спасибо за это. Очень по делу, и немного помоев от меня. Все решено. Обратите внимание на запрос по поводу Вагнера. Gog the Mild ( обсуждение ) 22:14, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Пару ответов выше - надеюсь, мои рассуждения о Вагнере теперь стали немного понятнее. Hog Farm _Talk 23:05, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Матарисван

Привет, Gog the Mild , я сберегаю здесь место и скоро опубликую свои комментарии. В качестве комментария drive-by, рассмотрите возможность добавления встроенной карты в инфобокс? Кроме того, разве неизвестно, кто был лидером рыцарей Наварезе? Matarisvan ( talk ) 18:55, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Привет, Матарисван , и спасибо, что взглянул на это. Я собирался переместить карту в «Первой осаде» в самый низ инфобокса, когда мне стало интересно, что вы имели в виду под «встроенным». Не могли бы вы пояснить? Спасибо. «лидер наваррских рыцарей», *чешет голову*. Я нигде в тексте не упоминаю «рыцарей», и, только что перечитав его, не могу понять, где вы могли бы иметь в виду какие-либо силы конных наваррских воинов. Я, вероятно, медлителен, но не могли бы вы мне помочь? Gog the Mild ( обсуждение ) 20:38, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Привет, @ Gog the Mild , под inline я подразумевал использование параметров map_type и map_size в инфобоксе, чтобы карта отображалась внутри инфобокса, и вам не нужно было бы перемещать изображение в разделе «Первая осада», что нормально там, где оно есть. Что касается наваррских рыцарей, я читал статью о рыцарях, прежде чем оставить комментарий здесь, поэтому я перепутал рыцарей с гарнизоном. Matarisvan ( talk ) 22:06, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Ваше здоровье.

• Карта. Без проблем, просто делаю что-то похожее для другой статьи.
• Если вы имеете в виду «были подкреплены до 1700 человек из удерживаемых наваррцами укреплений в течение следующего месяца», то, к сожалению, ни один источник не упоминает местных лидеров. ORing, я почти уверен, будет, потому что они состояли из 100 человек из этого города, 50 из того замка и т. д., каждый из которых подчинялся «офицерам», слишком младшим, чтобы быть упомянутыми, и вписывался в существующую «командную структуру».

Gog the Mild ( обсуждение ) 22:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Карта готова. Если это не так, как вы себе представляли, дайте мне знать. Gog the Mild ( обсуждение ) 22:56, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Изображения имеют соответствующую лицензию. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 05:01, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Криско

• Я добавил {{ nowrap }} к именам монархов, согласно MOS:NBSP . Пожалуйста, проверьте.

Выглядит хорошо. Спасибо.

• Тем временем Иоанн II чувствовал необходимость быть готовым лично вмешаться в Нормандию, если понадобится. Но были даны обязательства, что королевская армия поможет юго-западной Франции, поэтому в Бурже была собрана вторая армия , а третьему сыну Иоанна, пятнадцатилетнему Иоанну, графу Пуатье, было дано номинальное командование. - Две вещи: 1) в слове «meanwhile» обычно используется запятая, и 2) кажется неудобным начинать предложение с «but». Можно ли переделать эти предложения?

Не в том стиле коммейзинга, который я использую. И, как вы, я уверен, знаете, нет грамматических или стилистических причин, по которым предложение не должно начинаться с but. Замечу попутно, что между GA и ACR эта проза была официально рассмотрена четыре раза без упоминания об этом. Но, конечно, все можно переписать, если это покажется неловким. Я попробовал, посмотрим, что вы скажете.

• еще один младший брат Карла Наваррского - Стоит ли называть его просто «еще один младший брат Карла»?
• St. Vaast la Hougue - Я думал, что в BrE пропущена точка?

О, боже. Несколько источников на американском, и они меня околдовали. См. похожую жалобу Тима ниже. Спасибо. Исправлено.

• Соответствует ли использование слова «Мужчины» в этой статье MOS:GNL ?

Это.

• любой, кого он посчитал, мог бы быть достойным выкупа . - Будет ли лучше сказать «кого он посчитал»?

Моя первая мысль была «да», но тогда «Англичане... брали в плен всех, кого считали достойным выкупа», что не может быть правильным. Я думаю, что нынешняя конструкция может быть наименее худшей.

• Я вижу в тексте две ссылки на «грабеж». Нужны ли такие ссылки?

По-моему, нет. По какой-то причине «sack» привлекает запросы рецензентов на ссылку. Для которых есть только неадекватная добыча или грабеж. Затем они хотят отдельную ссылку для «loot». (Мне, вероятно, нужно написать статью о разграблении.) И легче сдаться, чем спорить по пустякам. Я бы с радостью удалил обе ссылки, но ограничился удалением второй. Я буду направлять всех жалобщиков на этот обмен.

• Где-то около 20 августа он предложил гарнизону Бретейля свободный проход в Котантен, огромную взятку и разрешение забрать их ценности и товары, чтобы убедить их покинуть город. - Они приняли предложение?

Я подправил формулировку, чтобы сделать ее более понятной. Лучше?

• В целом, довольно легкое чтение. —  Крис Вудрич ( обсуждение ) 21:09, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Спасибо {{|Crisco 1492}} и за обзор. Очень признателен. Я ответил на все ваши комментарии выше. Gog the Mild ( обсуждение ) 23:04, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Комментарии от Тима Райли

Немного от меня. Есть пара моментов, которые я бы не отказался немного подробнее рассмотреть, но статья, как мне кажется, в высшей степени подходит для повышения до FA, и я ее поддержу. Тем временем:

• Фон

• «Знаем ли мы, как англичане перешли от «финансового истощения» в 1346 году к «необычайно благоприятному финансовому положению» в 1355 году?

Прошло девять лет, Тим. За девять лет может произойти все, что угодно. Обратите внимание на использование слова «необычно». Я не хочу вдаваться в девятилетние отчеты о прибылях и убытках, включая ссылки на Черную смерть (1346-48), перемирие, которое неоднократно продлевалось и из которого я уже выдоил полную FA, серьезное изменение в том, как собиралась таможенная пошлина на экспорт шерсти (что, возможно, заслуживает еще одной статьи) и бог знает что еще. Ты меня сведешь с ума. Я вставил сноску о том, что источники, написанные начинающими бухгалтерами по затратам, более или менее согласны с тем, что было непосредственной причиной. Что вы думаете? Вероятно, это требует доработки, так что не стесняйтесь предлагать лучшие формулировки.

Прекрасно. Очень познавательно. Tim riley talk 00:45, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• «в основном из-за нехватки денег на набор большего количества людей» — в Американском английском «из-за» принимается как сложный предлог наравне с «из-за», но в БрА не всегда так считается. «Из-за» или, лучше сказать, «из-за» — более безопасно.

Я знаю. Ты мне это постоянно говоришь. У меня это даже в контрольном списке перед номинацией. Понятия не имею, как это прошло, но теперь его вычеркнули.

• Первая осада

• "Нормандия как граф Эврё и Карл приняли личное командование" – мне пришлось прочитать это три раза, прежде чем я уловил суть. Я все время читал "как" как "когда", а не "в качестве" и Эврё и Карл приняли личное командование. Если заменить "и" точкой с запятой или точкой, я думаю, все сразу станет ясно.

Да, сумбурно. Разбито на два предложения и слегка переработано. Спасибо.

• Облегчение

• «Попытка преследования была явно безнадежной» – неясно, почему преследование может быть безнадежным.

Немного подправил. Достаточно?

Это действительно так. Выступление Тима Райли 00:45, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Вторая осада

• «разрушения, происходящие на юго-западе Франции» – я думаю, вы могли иметь в виду «создаваемые»

На самом деле я этого не делал. Честно говоря. Но я слишком умён для собственного блага, поэтому изменился.

• Примечания

• «один из ближайших советников Джона» — неясно, почему «советник» Американской эры, а не традиционный «советник» БрЕ.

Потому что два из основных источников написаны на американском языке, и как только я читаю версию на американском языке, она оседает в огромном пустом пространстве между моих ушей и становится как дома. Теперь выселен.

Это моя участь. Тим Райли говорит 12:31, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Большое спасибо вам, г-н Райли . Некоторые мысли и комментарии в ответе выше. Gog the Mild ( обсуждение ) 00:27, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Полностью удовлетворен комментариями Гога выше и теперь с радостью распишусь на пунктирной линии и поддержу повышение этой статьи до FA. Как гордый обладатель Королевской премии за трусость, я нисколько не заинтересован в войне или людях, убивающих друг друга, но статьи Гога всегда привлекают мое внимание. Соответствует всем критериям FA, на мой взгляд. Надеюсь, в этой серии будет больше статей. Tim riley talk 00:45, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Сезон 2004–05 ФК «Джиллингем»

Номинатор(ы): ChrisTheDude ( обсуждение ) 21:03, 9 ноября 2024 г. (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Да, я снова вернулся с очередной статьей о сезоне в истории футбольного клуба «Джиллингем». Этот сезон, честно говоря, был просто ужасным, и написание статьи о нем вызвало у меня массу плохих воспоминаний, так что надеюсь, что смогу получить бронзовую звезду, чтобы компенсировать свою травму ;-) -- ChrisTheDude ( обсуждение ) 21:03, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Изображения имеют соответствующую лицензию. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 05:58, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Комментарии кота Эрика Айдла

Привет, Крис, как ни странно, я был на той игре Forest с другом, который болеет за Forest, и мы говорили об этом только на этой неделе. У меня есть пара мелких замечаний.

• В разделе «Предыстория и предсезонка»: «Они заняли 21-е место, сравнявшись по очкам с Уолсоллом, занявшим 22-е место, и избежав вылета в третий дивизион только потому, что их разница забитых и пропущенных мячей (-19) была на один больше, чем у Уолсолла (-20). — следует ли здесь писать «избежали» или «Уолсолл, избежав…»?
• В сноске 55 необходимо разделить «Sunday» и «Telegraph». Кот Эрика Айдла ( обсуждение ) 11:20, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
  • @Eric Idle's Cat: - спасибо за обзор, оба пункта рассмотрены. Насколько я помню (а это смутное воспоминание, учитывая, что это было почти 20 лет назад), я сидел примерно в двух рядах от передней части гостевого конца на той игре, шел проливной дождь, а крыша не закрывала все до самого начала, так что я промок и вдобавок стал свидетелем вылета моей команды....... -- ChrisTheDude ( talk ) 14:11, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ reply ]

Поддержка - как всегда, хорошая работа. Кот Эрика Айдла ( обсуждение ) 18:00, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

750ч

Рассмотрю. 750 ч+ 12:45, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Тедди Виньярд

Номинатор(ы): AA ( разговор ) 15:55, 9 ноября 2024 г. (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Эта статья о Тедди Виньярде, известном спортсмене и солдате. Как игрок в крикет, он играл в тестовом крикете за Англию и имел значительную карьеру в Гэмпшире, где он сыграл важную роль в возвращении им статуса первоклассного в 1894 году. Он также был футболистом, играя на заре этой игры. Он играл за «Старых картезианцев» и выиграл Кубок Англии 1881 года с командой. Он также был знатоком зимних видов спорта, выиграв Международный чемпионат по санному спорту в Давосе в 1894, 1895 и 1899 годах. В армии он участвовал в боевых действиях в Третьей англо-бирманской войне (Бирманская экспедиция), за которую получил орден «За выдающиеся заслуги». Он уволился с военной службы в 1903 году, но вернулся, чтобы служить в Первой мировой войне. Он также был важным администратором в крикете. В целом, интересная личность, которая вела разнообразную жизнь. AA ( обсуждение ) 15:55, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Заполнитель

• Запишусь, чтобы написать отзыв, когда будет достаточно времени -- ChrisTheDude ( обсуждение ) 21:05, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
  • Один комментарий попутчика - согласно сноске сразу под ними, футбольная статистика, показанная в инфобоксах, - это только "Появления и голы в клубных внутренних лигах". Поскольку его появления в Corinthians были товарищескими, они не должны отображаться (а для других команд вы можете удалить ? и просто показать пробелы, так как футбольная лига даже не существовала в тот период времени) -- ChrisTheDude ( обсуждение ) 08:46, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

    @ ChrisTheDude Я удалил футбольные команды/статистику из инфобокса, так как не думаю, что нужно показывать другие команды, поскольку они не были клубами лиги, и они упоминаются в прозе. AA ( обсуждение ) 20:53, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Обзор изображения

• Файл:Teddy_Wynyard_c1900.jpg: когда и где это было впервые опубликовано?
  • Комментарий . @ Nikkimaria : пока что единственная версия этой фотографии, которую я смог найти, находится на ESPNcricinfo здесь, где она приписывается клубу крикета округа Хэмпшир. Посмотрим, смогу ли я найти дату публикации, хотя, несомненно, до 1908 года, поскольку он носит кепку округа Хэмпшир, а его игровая карьера в Хэмпшире закончилась в 1908 году. AA ( обсуждение ) 20:48, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Файлу:Teddy_Wynyard_Vanity_Fair_25_August_1898.jpg требуется тег США
  • Готово . Тег добавлен. AA ( обсуждение ) 20:42, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Файл:Old_carthusians_1881.jpg: ссылка на источник не работает. Когда и где это было впервые опубликовано, и какие исследования были проведены, чтобы попытаться установить автора?
  • Комментарий . Похоже, это из этого источника, использующего Wayback machine. AA ( talk ) 20:40, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
    • Комментарий . Я провел обратный поиск изображений, который не выдал ничего, что нельзя было бы найти по определенным ключевым словам в Google. Я могу оставить сообщение на странице обсуждения WP:FOOTBALL и посмотреть, знает ли кто-нибудь, может ли это быть из книги. AA ( обсуждение ) 22:26, ​​10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Комментарии

• «Сын солдата и судьи Уильяма Виньярда, он родился» — мне кажется, что текст должен «начать заново» после лида, поэтому я бы сказал: «Сын солдата и судьи Уильяма Виньярда, Эдвард Джордж Виньярд родился»
  • Комментарий . Воспользовался вашим предложением, читается гораздо приятнее и с лучшим потоком. AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• «Было высказано предположение, что если бы он не пошел в военную карьеру, он мог бы достичь» — запятая не на своем месте, должно быть «Было высказано предположение, что если бы он не пошел в военную карьеру, он мог бы достичь»
  • Комментарий . Запятая сдвинулась! AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• «Его действия были высоко оценены генералом сэром Робертом Лоу и сэром Джорджем Уайтом» — в форме множественного числа слова «генерал» не должно быть апострофа.
  • Готово . Я удалил апостроф. AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• «В знак признания его заслуг он был назначен командиром роты Уэльского полка» — в начале было написано «Уэлч»…?
  • Готово . Я изменил полк на валлийский, так как до 1920 года он не был известен как Валлийский полк. AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• «К тому времени, как он вернулся домой в конце 1887 года, Хэмпшир утратил свой первоклассный статус после его отъезда в Индию после ряда неудачных сезонов». - Мне кажется, что слова «после его отъезда в Индию» здесь немного излишни.
  • Готово . Удалено. Я поигрался с добавлением «К тому времени, как он вернулся домой позже в 1887 году, Хэмпшир утратил свой первоклассный статус в 1885 году после ряда неудачных сезонов» , но, по-моему, это не совсем правильно читается. AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• «который отметил, что и Виньярд, и его сослуживец Фрэнсис Куинтон пропали без вести» — этой запятой не должно быть
  • Сделано . Отличное место на мошеннической запятой! AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• "С началом Второй англо-бурской войны" => "С началом Второй англо-бурской войны"
  • Готово . AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• "Зимой, предшествовавшей сезону 1904 года" => "Зимой, предшествовавшей сезону 1904 года"
  • Комментарий . В последнем абзаце предыдущего раздела кратко говорится о сезоне 1904 года. Следующий раздел начинается с рассказа о его туре по Вест-Индии, который состоялся зимой после сезона 1904 года. AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
    • Понял. В таком случае, я думаю, что нужно просто сказать «зима, которая последовала за сезоном 1904 года». Я не уверен на 100%, что «proceeded» можно использовать как переходный глагол в значении «пришел после» (т. е. можно ли действительно сказать «четверг был днем, который продолжил среду»......?) - если можно, то это должно быть архаичное/непонятное использование, и я привожу себя в пример того, как это сбивает с толку читателей ;-) -- ChrisTheDude ( talk ) 21:20, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
      • Комментарий . Да, мне всегда не нравилось использовать "proceeding", я бы предпочел что-то более замысловатое! Изменил :) AA ( talk ) 21:45, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• "с Виньярдом, возглавляющим средние показатели отбивания команды" => "с Виньярдом, возглавляющим средние показатели отбивания команды"
  • Готово . AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• "она застряла подо льдом после горного потока" - перед точкой с запятой стоит лишняя точка
  • Сделано . Хорошее место! AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• "создание собственного клуба "Джокеры", который был выбран" => "создание собственного клуба "Джокеры", который был выбран"
  • Готово , запятая вставлена. AA ( обсуждение ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• Эти очень незначительные моменты - все, что я получил - ChrisTheDude ( обсуждение ) 19:15, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
  • @ ChrisTheDude : . Большое спасибо за ваши комментарии :) Пожалуйста, найдите мои ответы выше. AA ( talk ) 20:21, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• Поддержка прозы -- ChrisTheDude ( обсуждение ) 09:30, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Чисто американская сука

Номинатор(ы): N Ø 06:43, 8 ноября 2024 г. (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Эта статья о первом треке с альбома Guts Оливии Родриго , "All-American Bitch". Эта песня, в которой резко критикуются ожидания общества от женщин, содержит все: от отсылки к Кеннеди до перехода от фолка к поп-панку и крика на века. Хотя она и не получила полной обработки синглом, она получила отличное исполнение в SNL! Я хотел приурочить это к избирательному сезону в Америке, но никаких комментариев по поводу результатов этих выборов... Надеюсь, все американские википедисты проголосовали, и большое спасибо всем, кто найдет время, чтобы оставить здесь свой отзыв.-- N Ø 06:43, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Обзор СМИ - пройден

Привет MaranoFan , рад сделать обзор медиа. Статья содержит следующие медиафайлы:

• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAC/File:Olivia_Rodrigo_@_Theatre_at_Ace_Hotel_10_09_2023_(53422493857).jpg
• https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAC/File:OlivaRO2150524_(8)_(53727178201)_(обрезано).jpg
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAC/File:All-American_Bitch.ogg

Первые два — это изображения, лицензированные по CC BY 2.0. Третий — это аудиофайл, защищенный авторским правом, с добросовестным использованием и обоснованием несвободного использования. Я не эксперт в этом, но качество может быть слишком высоким: оно составляет 173 кбит/с, но WP:SAMPLE рекомендует 64 кбит/с для файлов ogg.

Медиафайлы имеют отношение к статье и размещены в соответствующих местах. Все они имеют подписи. Оба изображения имеют альтернативные тексты. Последний пункт английской подписи по адресу https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAC/File:Olivia_Rodrigo_@_Theatre_at_Ace_Hotel_10_09_2023_(53422493857).jpg немного странный. Если «с идеальными американскими губами и сиськами» — это прямая цитата, то ее нужно заключить в кавычки. Или пункт можно просто удалить. Phlsph7 ( talk ) 10:47, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ reply ]

Спасибо за обзор медиа, Phlsph7 . Рекомендация 64kbit/s относится к значению между длиной и размером файла, которое составляет 63 kbps для этого файла. Похожие размеры можно увидеть в других файлах, таких как этот .-- N Ø 11:10, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Ах да, похоже, я прочитал о значении kbps файла mp3, указанном внизу, а не о значении kbps самого файла ogg. Подпись была скорректирована, так что это решает оставшуюся проблему. Phlsph7 ( talk ) 09:28, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Заполнитель

• Собираюсь сделать обзор этого, когда у меня будет немного больше времени....... -- ChrisTheDude ( обсуждение ) 08:23, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Комментарии от Medxvo

• «С точки зрения лирики, это сатира, исследующая общество...» - «С точки зрения лирики, это сатирическая песня, исследующая общество...»
• «сравнивая ее с работами других рок-исполнителей» — что «это»? постановка, песня или постановка и ее вокал?
• «В Соединенных Штатах она дебютировала под номером 13...» — «В Соединенных Штатах «All-American Bitch» дебютировала под номером 13...» — Предложение перед этим относится не к самой песне, а к вокалу и продюсированию.
• " платиновая сертификация " - "платиновая сертификация " — MOS:PIPE
• "... на ее лице. Это выступление получило положительные отзывы" - "... на ее лице; выступление получило положительные отзывы критиков"
• «Дэн Нигро вернулся, чтобы спродюсировать каждый трек на альбоме» — разве мы говорили в предыдущей статье, что Нигро также спродюсировал Sour ?
• «Книга Джоан Дидион ...» - «Книга Джоан Дидион 1968 года ...»
• «Первоначально написанная на пианино, они превратили её в рок-песню с живой группой» — «Первоначально написанная на пианино, песня была превращена в рок-песню с живой группой» — я не думаю, что первый вариант грамматически правильный
• «В одном из онлайн-видео на TikTok сравнивают припев песни «All-American Bitch» с синглом Майли Сайрус 2008 года «Start All Over». Можем ли мы добавить что-то вроде «после выхода песни», чтобы сказать, что это часть немедленного приема и оправдать нахождение предложения в разделе о выходе?
• «Его производство получило сравнения» — «Производство песни получило сравнения» — Предложение перед этим относится не к самой песне, а к вокалу Родриго.
• «Лора Снейпс описала это как ...» — «Лора Снейпс описала песню как ...» — Чтобы уточнить, что речь идет о самой песне.
• "сравнивая его с опенингом Sour "Brutal" - "сравнивая его с опенингом Sour "Brutal" (2021)"
• «Некоторые высказали мнение, что песня подойдет...» — можем ли мы отнести это к двум источникам вместо «некоторых»?
• «Несколько других также описали вокал Родриго в куплетах как ангельский, а Джон Мерфи из MusicOMH считал, что ее крики...» - «Несколько критиков описали вокал Родриго в куплетах как ангельский, а Джон Мерфи из MusicOMH считал, что ее крики...»
• «Лукас из Beats Per Minutes...» — «Лукас из Beats Per Minutes...»
• "был сертифицирован как золотой" - "был сертифицирован как золотой"
• "песня из топ-10" - "песня из топ-10"
• «в концерте исключительно для ...» - «в эксклюзивном концерте для ...»
• «Родриго спел ее в Saturday Night Live восемь дней спустя» — «Родриго спел «All-American Bitch» в Saturday Night Live 9 декабря 2023 года» — Это новый абзац, поэтому я бы назвал полную дату
• «что предоставило 20 тортов для того, чтобы стало ...» - «что предоставило 20 тортов для представления, стало ...»
• "сериал Apple TV+ Пираты " - "сериал Apple TV+ Пираты (2023)"
• Guts World Tour — это концертный тур 2024–2025 годов, а не просто тур 2024 года; так он сейчас считается... (как для соло, так и для прозы)
• Есть инциденты с « Guts 's ...», « The New York Times 's ...», « Chicago Sun-Times 's ...», которые, я думаю, должны быть « Guts ' ...», « The New York Times ' ...», « Chicago Sun-Times ' ...»

Надеюсь, эти комментарии пока полезны. Удачи с FAC! Medxvo ( обсуждение ) 20:45, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Обзор источника

• «Она ссылается на семью Кеннеди, одновременно выражая свое желание соответствовать идеалам: «У меня есть класс и честность, как у чертового Кеннеди» — какая часть источника NME подтверждает это утверждение?
• Источники Rolling Stone должны иметь ограниченный доступ, а не подписной доступ.
• The Wall Street Journal и The Tennessean должны иметь доступ по подписке
• The New York Times , The Cut , the Los Angeles Times , The Boston Globe , Vulture , Vogue и Minnesota Star Tribune должны иметь ограниченный доступ для ссылок 1, 3, 35, 40, 46, 85, 86, 97, 98 и 99.
• Некоторые источники необходимо архивировать, например, ссылки 44, 78 и 87.
• Почему бы не использовать этот источник вместо источника Apple TV+ Press?

Medxvo ( обсуждение ) 20:45, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Новый остров Йоши

Номинатор(ы): ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( обсуждение ) 19:08, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Yoshi's New Island — платформенная видеоигра 2014 года , разработанная Arzest и изданная Nintendo для Nintendo 3DS , по сути являющаяся прямым продолжением событий Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island . Это моя третья номинация на премию FA и первая за игру, не входящую в серию Mario Party . Насколько мне известно, это будет первая статья об игре Yoshi , получившей статус FA.

Я бы сказал, что раздел «Разработка и выпуск» — лучший из тех, над которыми я когда-либо работал, во многом благодаря источникам, предложенным Captain Galaxy . Ранее эта статья была повышена до статуса GA после весьма ценного отзыва от Cukie Gherkin . Большинство моих правок с тех пор на самом деле заключались в удалении избыточных или менее полезных цитат из раздела игрового процесса, чтобы сделать его более удобным для чтения. Недавно мне удалось заархивировать источник, который не был заархивирован до закрытия Wayback Machine. Как всегда, обратная связь приветствуется. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( обсуждение ) 19:08, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Я согласен с тем, что это будет представлено только с небольшой работой. В целом, это должно быть представлено Thelifeofan413 ( talk ) 09:57, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

@Thelifeofan413: Есть ли у вас какие-либо конкретные предложения по поводу того, какую работу можно было бы выполнить, или вы в целом согласны с отзывами, предоставленными ниже? ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( обсуждение ) 14:03, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Я думаю, что может быть раздел наследия, поскольку я видел это в других похожих избранных статьях. Thelifeofan413 ( обсуждение ) 19:28, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Раздел наследия мог бы подойти лучше, если бы игра была более громкой или если бы была важная информация, которая в противном случае не поместилась бы в раздел приема, например, как раздел наследия для Mario Party DS обсуждает антипиратскую мистификацию. Как бы вы отнеслись к абзацу в конце раздела «Критический ответ», который оценивает общее положение игры в рейтингах критиков игр Yoshi ? ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( обсуждение ) 19:50, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Я чувствую, что это может быть то, как это было затронуто последующими сериями. Это также может быть использовано для того, как это повлияло на историю франшизы Йоши. Thelifeofan413 ( обсуждение ) 21:03, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

@Thelifeofan413: Не могли бы вы взглянуть на последний абзац в разделе «Критический ответ», чтобы понять, похоже ли это на то, что вы имели в виду? ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( обсуждение ) 16:42, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Комментарии от Cukie Gherkin

Резервирую на случай, если у меня будет время для обзора. - Cukie Gherkin ( обсуждение ) 19:17, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Поскольку я больше склонен к играм и прочему, я постараюсь прокомментировать, как сделать статью более понятной для неигроков. - Cukie Gherkin ( обсуждение ) 23:52, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

1. Насколько я понимаю, шаблон обзора должен содержать только 10 примеров обзоров. - Cukie Gherkin ( обсуждение ) 08:25, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Я сделаю хотя бы это. - Cukie Gherkin ( обсуждение ) 19:22, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Кроме того, я постараюсь заняться поиском источников, но не могу обещать, что смогу сделать полный обзор статьи с точки зрения ее качества из-за внезапных жизненных осложнений. - Cukie Gherkin ( обсуждение ) 08:07, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Обзор источника

1. [7] - Работаю над этим. Не связано конкретно с этим источником, но "Каждый босс побеждается с трех ударов". Кажется, что это может быть адекватно подкреплено этим источником.
2. [8] - «Четвертый уровень каждого мира представляет собой замковый курс, который заканчивается битвой со злым волшебником Камеком». - Кажется, это следует адекватно процитировать, не используя это.
3. «Потеря жизни с Flutter Wings открывает золотой вариант усиления, который обеспечивает как полет, так и непобедимость». Здесь используются три цитаты, но я не уверен, что описывают две другие, чего нет в цитате Nintendo World Report.
4. То, что в мини-игры нельзя играть онлайн, не указано в двух приложенных источниках; я думаю, что эту часть можно удалить. Я думаю, что этот источник также можно удалить из этой строки текста, поскольку он, похоже, не подтверждает ничего, чего не подтверждает другой источник.
5. «позволяя нескольким людям, имеющим систему, играть вместе, используя только один игровой картридж». - Я думаю, было бы уместно заменить этот источник источником, объясняющим, что такое Download Play на 3DS и как он работает.
6. «Yoshi's New Island был разработан Arzest», к этому приложены три источника, но это утверждение, похоже, можно подкрепить только одним.
7. [9] - Учитывая, что это используется только в информационном поле, а не далее в статье, я бы удалил эту цитату и использовал цитату, упомянутую ниже.

Вырезал цитаты, где это было необходимо, и добавил ссылку GameSpot, в которой упоминается, что Download Play работает путем прямой передачи данных между консолями. Я не уверен, на какую цитату, упомянутую позже, вы ссылались, хотя я считаю, что она должна быть достаточно поддержана как есть. Я не видел ничего в MOS/VG или Template:Video game reviews об ограничении на обзоры в таблице, хотя я сузил ее до 10 публикаций. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( talk ) 15:17, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

1. Я заметил, что этот источник используется как источник, хотя есть источник, подтверждающий его (источник Nintendo World Report). Я также заметил, что в нескольких датах выпуска вы дублируете источник; это для того, чтобы еще больше подтвердить правильность даты выпуска?
2. [10] - Твердый
3. [11] - Твердый
4. [12] - В основном нормально, за исключением того, что я заметил, что в статье утверждается, что колесо является целью большинства уровней, но в статье Siliconera говорится о каждом уровне. Я предполагаю, что квалификатор большинства уровней - это признание уровней замка?
5. [13] - Твердый

Как-то даже не заметил, что дата релиза в Японии уже поддерживается Nintendo World Report . Я удалил основную ссылку. И вы совершенно правы, уровни замка — единственные уровни без кольца для цели, о чем в статье, к сожалению, не упоминается. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( talk ) 22:17, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ reply ]

Обзор изображения

Файл:Yoshinewislandboxart3ds.jpg - Достаточно низкое разрешение, описание точное. Следует указать, что это не полное изображение, так как это обрезанное изображение. Изображение не соответствует изображению, использованному в этом источнике, следует изменить источник на этот: [14]

Файл:Yoshi's New Island - Mega Eggdozer gaming.jpg - Достаточно низкое разрешение, источник указан точно, показывая контекст его использования. Я бы рекомендовал использовать более сильное обоснование, включая то, почему именно скриншот необходим для понимания читателем. То есть, вы можете упомянуть изображенные элементы пользовательского интерфейса, графику, игровой процесс и т. д.

Я уточнил, что некоторые элементы первого изображения были обрезаны, и исправил его источник. Я также усилил обоснование для второго изображения, в основном отметив элементы пользовательского интерфейса, которые не упоминаются в других местах статьи. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( talk ) 03:25, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ reply ]

Против от SC

• Похоже, что цитаты были забиты до последней капли, из-за чего читать их было трудно. Могу ли я настоятельно рекомендовать вам рассмотреть возможность рационализации и объединения их так, чтобы в любой момент их было не больше двух или трех? (Например: нужно ли для фразы «Все трансформации Йоши контролируются гироскопом консоли» пять цитат для подтверждения информации? Не проверяя источники, я бы предположил, что одной из этих пяти, вероятно, будет достаточно.)
• Я возражаю, основываясь только на прочтении раздела «Геймплей». Это нужно переписать, чтобы было понятно людям, которые никогда не играли в игру или даже не слышали о ней. Даже после прочтения я все еще не имею ни малейшего представления, что такое «йоши», что такое «Малыш Марио» или кто такой «Камек». То же самое касается и «Камек». Часть терминологии также непонятна: «30 медалей Йоши собираются из рулетки гоул» — это тарабарщина без какого-либо контекста, и я понятия не имею, что такое «средний босс». Даже прочитав этот раздел, я все еще не понимаю, в чем смысл игры: есть ли у нее конец, которого люди могут достичь и «выиграть» игру? Кажется, нет никакого описания всей игры (с чего и должен начинаться раздел): все сразу в детали без контекста. Похоже, это распространенная проблема статей о видеоиграх, которые пишутся с точки зрения геймеров и инсайдеров, что исключает большой процент читателей, которые остаются в замешательстве. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 19:27, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Спрашиваю в общем, но будет ли терминология, такая как «средний босс», более понятной, если средний босс связан с этим ? - Cukie Gherkin ( обсуждение ) 20:39, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

MoS говорит - MOS:NOFORCELINK - "Используйте ссылку, где это уместно, но, насколько это возможно, не заставляйте читателя использовать эту ссылку, чтобы понять предложение. Текст должен иметь смысл для читателей, которые не могут следовать ссылкам". Поэтому, если необходимо что-то понять, чтобы понять, что в более общем смысле сообщается, то это что-то нужно объяснить в строке . В конце концов, мы энциклопедия, объясняющая вещи людям, которые их не понимают, - это то, что мы делаем. Отправлять читателя по ссылке, чтобы прочитать другую статью, чтобы вернуться к вашей, возможно, в середине предложения, на самом деле не срабатывает. Gog the Mild ( обсуждение ) 23:31, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Понятно. Я буду иметь это в виду для любых статей об игре, которые я принесу в FAC. - Cukie Gherkin ( обсуждение ) 23:37, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

То же самое. Я просто перефразирую некоторые части раздела, чтобы облегчить понимание для читателей, не знакомых с терминологией видеоигр. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( обсуждение ) 23:52, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

@ SchroCat : Не могли бы вы еще раз взглянуть на раздел игрового процесса? Я сохранил большую часть информации прежней, но реструктурировал ее таким образом, чтобы сделать реальную цель игры более ясной, а терминологию менее запутанной для всех читателей. Я также вырезал изрядное количество цитат как из этого раздела, так и из раздела сюжета. ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( обсуждение ) 16:58, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

• На данный момент мое возражение все еще в силе. Частично это все та же проблема, требующая слишком много уже существующих знаний для понимания этого, частично качество прозы и частично, все еще чрезмерное цитирование. Один пример цитат находится в первом абзаце основного текста. Я посмотрел на фразу «усилено и расширено магией Камека». Эта фраза из шести слов, по-видимому, требует четырех цитат ([13][14][15][16]), но только одна из них (№ 15) подтверждает информацию. Одна из цитат даже не упоминает Камека, а другие вообще не поддерживают ее. Зачем вообще там остальные три цитаты? Я собираюсь повторить вам WP:CITEBUNDLE , так как огромное количество цитат делает это неудобным чтением. В сочетании с неприятными аспектами прозы я бросил читать, прежде чем добрался до конца раздела «Геймплей».
  Просматривая статью, я вижу, что раздел обзоров полон OR/SYNTH. Под этим я подразумеваю, что если вы посмотрите — просто в качестве примера — на фразу «Саундтрек игры был широко раскритикован критиками», я вижу четыре цитаты: [7][9][17][25]. Игнорируя неэнциклопедический термин «раскритикован», ни одна из этих цитат на самом деле не подтверждает, что музыка была широко раскритикована. Это четыре примера критики музыки рецензентами, чего недостаточно для подтверждения текста. Чтобы сказать «Саундтрек игры был широко раскритикован критиками», вам нужно что-то, что скажет это, а не ваш OR, когда вы выбираете четыре обзора, которые и приходите к выводу, что он был «широко раскритикован». Весь раздел изобилует этим и форматом «[Рецензент] [ Публикация ] сказал...»; к сожалению, это на миллион миль дальше стандарта FA.
  Извините, все это звучит очень резко и негативно, но я действительно думаю, что вам следует рассмотреть возможность отзыва этой номинации и поработать над проблемами, прежде чем отправляться на экспертную оценку. Когда вы это сделаете, я настоятельно рекомендую вам попросить некоторых неигровых людей оценить ее, чтобы убедиться, что им полностью понятно, о чем игра. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 08:13, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ SchroCat Я, если честно, не пишу и не читаю статьи о видеоиграх и не комментирую ваши другие критические замечания, но что касается критики OR, разве не так пишутся разделы приема? Просматривая список представленного контента о видеоиграх , буквально каждая выбранная мной статья написана таким образом. Просматривая множество других статей о медиа (книги, фильмы, телешоу), это также распространено там, но немного реже. Я сам никогда этого не понимал, но либо мы должны исключить каждую FA о видеоиграх, либо это не так уж и необычно. PARAKANYAA ( обсуждение ) 13:06, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Зависит от того, как это сформулировано. Можно начать абзац с предложения, которое дает обзор (зависит от формулировки), но не делать окончательного всеобъемлющего заявления на основе четырех обзоров. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 15:05, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Достаточно ли семи обзоров? Три цитаты в конце предложения призваны дополнить это утверждение. Или лучше просто начать предложение с чего-то вроде «Многие рецензенты раскритиковали саундтрек игры»? ★ The Green Star Collector ★ ( talk ) 15:44, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ reply ]

  Я думаю, если бы вы избавились от этого повсеместно, это помогло бы решить проблему - Cukie Gherkin ( обсуждение ) 15:48, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Чтобы отразить исходный материал, не делая выводов по всем обзорам, «несколько рецензентов упомянули X» — это хорошее тематическое предложение. Еще лучше было бы охарактеризовать, как именно они критиковали его саундтрек, ссылаясь на источники и/или предоставляя цитаты в цитате в качестве доказательства, а затем приводить отдельные примеры критики. czar 00:48, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Марта Брэдли

Номинатор(ы): SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 16:48, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Еще один автор кулинарной книги из истории для вашего рассмотрения. Я создал ее около четырех лет назад и отнес ее в GA, но недавно я добавил больше и подправил ее, и я думаю, что она достаточно зрелая, чтобы попробовать ее для FA. Все конструктивные комментарии приветствуются. – SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 16:48, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Генералиссимус

Обзор изображения

Все изображения находятся в общественном достоянии и подходят для использования. Альтернативный текст был бы хорош, но не обязателен. Позже сделаю обзор прозы. Генералиссима ( обсуждение ) (оно/она) 17:10, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Alt text: моя вечная слабость: я добавлю это в ближайшее время. Спасибо за просмотр изображений, и я с нетерпением жду любых других ваших комментариев. Cheers - SchroCat ( talk ) 17:14, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Добавлены альтернативы - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 10:15, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Хорошо, альты выглядят хорошо! Теперь вернемся к обзору прозы. - G

Обзор прозы

• Леде солидный и, похоже, имеет хорошую длину для этой короткой статьи.
• Жизнь хорошо написана. Я столкнулся с похожей проблемой, когда мне пришлось писать биографию человека, не имеющего четких фактов о его жизни, поэтому я понимаю, что это может быть сложно.
  • Нужно ли нам знать, что она читала именно третье издание « Королевской кулинарии» ?
    • Это одна из немногих подсказок относительно того, когда она была еще жива (я думаю, это последняя точная дата, которую можно определить), поэтому я думаю, что это важный момент. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 08:17, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• Может быть, было бы неплохо разместить где-нибудь ссылку на систему рабов.

Я пока связал его с Slavery#Africa , но это не лучшая ссылка. Я поищу альтернативу, но на данный момент сойдет и это. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 08:17, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• «Тевтонский» — это достаточно архаично, я думаю, это смутит многих читателей. Я думаю, нам следует просто говорить «немецкий».
  • Хм. Хорошо. Я пытался избежать близкого повторения слова «немецкий», но я попробую. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 08:17, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• Нужно ли нам снова давать ссылку на Гласс так скоро после ее предыдущего упоминания?
  • Неужели так скоро? Она связана в разных разделах (теперь разрешено) и между двумя ссылками есть приличная разница. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 08:17, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• Современные кулинарные книги Это может быть просто потому, что я янки, но я никогда не слышал, чтобы "кулинарная книга" использовалась в современном контексте. Есть ли разница в использовании между кулинарной книгой и кулинарной книгой? Не столько исправление, сколько просто интерес с моей стороны.
  • Да, это все потому, что ты янки! У нас тут есть кулинарные книги: мы оставляем "кулинарные книги" тебе. Просто ENGVAR-штука, о которой большинство не знает. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 08:17, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

@ SchroCat : На этом все с моей стороны. Спасибо за еще одну интересную статью по истории кулинарии. Генералиссима ( обсуждение ) (оно/она) 07:12, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Большое спасибо, Генералиссима ; все ваши замечания учтены в этой редакции. Ура - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 08:17, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Поддержка Мне кажется, все хорошо, спасибо за быстрый ответ. Генералиссима ( обсуждение ) (оно/она) 15:27, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Поддержка от Криско

• Сделал PR. Запишите меня для еще одного обзора здесь в ближайшие несколько дней. —  Крис Вудрич ( обсуждение ) 02:23, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
  • Все мои опасения были решены в PR . Я быстро отредактировал текст ALT, но в остальном все стабильно с 1 октября. Рад поддержать. —  Крис Вудрич ( обсуждение ) 11:08, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

750ч

как и в любом другом обзоре, вы можете свободно отклонять мои предложения, предоставив надлежащее обоснование. 750 ч.+ 06:21, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

вести

• выпущено в двух томах в 1758 году. Означает ли это, что было выпущено два тома? Если да, то почему стоит дефис?

• Немного переработал - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 09:38, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

жизнь

• здесь нет проблем. 750 ч+ 06:21, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

британская домохозяйка (1758)

• показал экономический аспект их ==> "показал экономический аспект их"

• «Экономический» имеет подтекст экономической науки или экономики в целом; «экономический» больше связан с соотношением цены и качества или прибыльностью и кажется более подходящим. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 09:38, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Понятно. 750 ч+ 09:45, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• критиковать их подход к определенным блюдам ==> "критиковать их подход к определенным блюдам"

• Да, сделано. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 09:38, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• и ни в коем случае не экстравагантный в расходах. ==> "и ни в коем случае не экстравагантный в расходах".

• Это цитата. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 09:38, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

ой, не понял 750 ч+ 09:45, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Спасибо за статью @ SchroCat : ! У меня есть открытая кандидатура , если хотите взглянуть. 750 h+ 06:21, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Большое спасибо 750. Готово, за исключением прокомментированных мест. Ура - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 09:38, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Поддержка . 750 ч+ 09:45, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

КомментарииПоддержка от Тима Райли

• «Книга следует французскому стилю новой кухни» — это меня остановило. Я всегда думал, что новая кухня появилась, когда я был молодым человеком, и, что еще хуже, так утверждает Dictionnaire de l'académie Française : La nouvelle cuisine, courant gastronomique né à la fin des années 1960, privilégiant une cuisine plus légère que la cuisine française traditionnelle . Но потом, черт возьми, я обнаружил, что Oxford Companion to Food говорит, что в 1733 году Винсент Ла Шапель в своем Cuisinier moderne объявил о рождении «новой кухни», нового способа приготовления пищи, который должен был быть принят несколькими поколениями французских поваров — пока Карем не бросил ему вызов в начале 19 века . Два взаимоисключающих использования одного и того же термина. Я думаю, вашим читателям было бы очень полезно добавить сноску, поясняющую, что этот термин впервые был использован в XVIII веке и вновь появился в 1960-х годах, в обоих случаях выступая за возврат к простоте.
• «способные улучшить уже существующие блюда» — разве просто «существующие» не выполняли бы здесь ту же функцию (гораздо более элегантно)?
• "Основываясь на рецептах, показанных в ее работе, Брэдли прочитала несколько современных кулинарных книг" – я не думаю, что это предложение работает. Я думаю, вам нужно "кажется, что" или "очевидно, что" или что-то в этом роде после запятой и перед Брэдли.
• «... повар, экономка, садовник и кузнец» — может быть, синяя ссылка для «кузнеца»?
• «вальдшнеп или бекас, голубь, куропатка и курица» – неправильно написано голубь (только в альтернативном тексте, но даже так...)
• «кондитерские изделия и консервы...» — обычно сладости называют «кондитерскими изделиями», а «кондитерская» — местом, где они производятся.
• «Историк кулинарии Сандра Шерман видит педагогическую форму в расположении рецептов» – возможно, «педагогическую форму»?
• «Брэдли была одной из самых женщин, писавших кулинарные книги в Англии восемнадцатого века» – в отличие от одной из мужеподобных? (Джулиан: «Мы получаем их от нашего мясника». Хорн: «Твой мясник?» Джулиан: «Ты так думаешь? Наверное, это из-за того, как я ношу волосы».)
• «Хотя Брэдли поддержала некоторые аспекты французской кухни, она также с удовольствием критиковала их подход к определенным блюдам» — под «ними» подразумевались французы, но на самом деле это не так.
• «примеры того, как скреплять куски дичи,[60] примеры меню...» – возможно, это синоним одного из двух «примеров»?

Вот моя участь. Я поддержу, но надеюсь, что эти несколько придирок пока что будут полезны. Tim riley talk 11:33, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Большое спасибо, Тим , очень признателен: я охватил все это в этих правках. Приветствия - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 14:56, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Все отлично. Рад поддержать – прекрасная статья, тщательно исследованная и снабженная ссылками. На мой взгляд, соответствует всем критериям FA. Tim riley talk 15:34, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Обзор источника с примечанием о структуре/теме статьи

Скрипт harvn жалуется, что Pinkard2009 и Davison2014 не указывают ни на одну ссылку, я полагаю, что первый должен ссылаться на источник Pickard2009, а второй — опечатка. Это довольно большие диапазоны страниц во многих коротких источниках. Является ли тема Брэдли или книга, которую она написала? Статья структурирована как биография, но и длина раздела, и источники, которые я перлюстрировал, больше о книге, чем о Брэдли. Существует шаблон в форматировании источника, и источники кажутся надежными — старая книга используется как источник для своего собственного контента, что нормально — но я должен предупредить, что это не та область, в которой я большой эксперт. Архив Интернета настаивает, что цитаты из книги Брэдли, которые я искал, не существуют? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( обсуждение ) 09:13, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Большое спасибо, Jo-Jo. Я исправил проблему с цитированием. Тема максимально посвящена Брэдли (но, как говорится в самой статье, «Мало что известно о жизни Марты Брэдли, и то, что известно, взято из ее единственной публикации, « Британская домохозяйка »»: это означает, что мы должны охватить книгу на каком-то уровне. Диапазонов страниц очень мало, и большинство из них довольно короткие; там, где они длиннее, это потому, что тема охватывает весь диапазон страниц (все это в основном связано с собственными работами Брэдли). Чтобы увидеть цитаты, лучше всего перейти на страницу, на которой вы хотите увидеть цитату. С архаичным шрифтом («S» отображается как «f» и т. д.) поисковая система IA не работает так хорошо, как должна, при подборе нужных слов. Приветствия - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 09:30, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Похоже, статья была бы лучше, если бы была построена вокруг книги (например, The British Housewife ), а не вокруг автора. Повторно цитирую: принято ли отмечать отклонения (например, "fhe"->"Our cook" в #53)? Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk ) 12:07, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Нет, я думаю, лучше здесь - о ней есть запись в DNB, так что, согласно WP:ANYBIO, мы более чем в порядке, имея статью о ней. Нет большой разницы между Брэдли и кем-то вроде Энн Кук (писательница кулинарных книг) (за исключением того, что о Куке немного больше). Я скоро посмотрю цитаты. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 13:40, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Астон Мартин DB11

Номинатор(ы): 750 ч+ 05:43, 4 ноября 2024 г. (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Эта статья о великолепном гран-турере, который является преемником Aston Martin DB9 — первого FA, который я сделал. Это моя седьмая номинация, и она прошла недавний обзор GA от Mertbiol, за что я очень благодарен. Спасибо за любые комментарии, которые я получаю. 750 ч+ 05:43, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Обзор изображения

Просто просматриваю изображение:

• Все изображения имеют бесплатную лицензию от фотографа на Commons. Все имеют alt-текст, подписи и ссылки на Commons. Логотип Aston Martin является de minimis и не является основной частью какой-либо фотографии.
• Что касается первой подписи в разделе «Предыстория», то, по-моему, людям, незнакомым с автомобилями, было бы понятнее, если бы « DB9 » либо ссылался на статью об этом автомобиле, либо был расширен до «Aston Martin DB9», как в основном тексте.

И это все, Rjj ⁱⁱⁱ ( обсуждение ) 22:44, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Готово. Спасибо за отзыв. 750 ч+ 23:09, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Очень приятно. Вопросов не осталось, Rjj ⁱⁱⁱ ( обсуждение ) 23:16, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

СК

• Мне нужно сделать еще несколько вещей, но я их рассмотрю. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 06:33, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• "на заводе в Гейдоне": Я думаю, что нужно немного больше, чем "на заводе". Может быть, "на заводе Aston Martin в Гейдоне"?
• «2004[7][8] на объекте»: то же самое здесь: «2004[7][8] на своем объекте» будет достаточно
• «2016 на предприятии в Гейдоне, Уорикшир»: -> «2016 на предприятии в Гейдоне» (нет необходимости снова упоминать Уорикшир)
• «почти идеальное распределение веса»: описание «почти идеального» требует указания источника, я думаю
• «двери ... на петлях типа лебедя»: поскольку это полутехнический термин, я думаю, вам следует пояснить, что он означает (см. MOS:NOFORCELINK – «не заставляйте читателя использовать эту ссылку, чтобы понять предложение»).
• "юмористически" -> "юмористически"

Вот такая у меня судьба. Здесь мало что можно почерпнуть – еще одно приятное чтение. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 12:11, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Готово. вторая последняя проблема, я объяснил через сноску. Спасибо за обзор @ SchroCat : . 750 ч+ 12:31, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Поддержка . Всего хорошего от меня. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 13:00, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Источник обзора: pass

Я могу также забрать это, пока я здесь - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 12:11, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Форматирование единообразно и соответствует политике и практике.
• Дополнительные поиски не выявили недостающих источников информации.
• Использованные источники надежны и приемлемы для FA.
• Прохождение проверки исходного кода. - SchroCat ( обсуждение ) 13:00, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Большое спасибо за отзывы SC! 750 ч+ 13:17, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

История дошкольных учреждений в Великобритании

Номинатор(ы): Ллеви ( обсуждение ) 11:31, 2 ноября 2024 г. (UTC)[ отвечать ]

А что если это будет историческая статья, но с симпатичными картинками?

Это моя вторая номинация этой статьи. Ранее она была номинирована под названием «детская школа» ( см. ), но поскольку были опасения по поводу сферы охвата статьи, ее фокус был конкретизирован. Я дам ссылку на всех, кто прокомментировал первоначальную номинацию, чтобы они могли решить, стоит ли что-то говорить о текущем состоянии статьи; Wehwalt , Generalissima , Nikkimaria , WhatamIdoing , UndercoverClassicist , Gerda Arendt , Crisco 1492 и Serial Number 54129. Llewee ( обсуждение ) 11:31, 2 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

@ Llewee : вы должны ждать 2 недели, прежде чем начинать новые номинации. Прошло пять дней. {{@FAC}} 750 ч+ 23:38, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

FrB.TG , сказал, что это не применимо в данном случае, когда они закрыли последнюю номинацию-- Llewee ( обсуждение ) 00:21, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Только что увидел. Мой плохой 750 h+ 02:53, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Поддержка от Crisco 1492

• Моя поддержка предыдущей номинации все еще в силе. Я вижу, что обсуждение Ирландии было удалено, и я думаю, что изменение сферы действия помогло сделать статью более конкретной. —  Крис Вудрич ( обсуждение ) 13:33, 2 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Крушение поезда Вальхалла

Номинатор(ы): Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 05:26, 2 ноября 2024 (UTC)[ отвечать ]

Эта статья о самой смертоносной железнодорожной катастрофе за 40-летнюю историю железной дороги Metro-North в Нью-Йорке . Пять человек в поезде Harlem Line погибли в час пик зимним вечером в пригородном округе Вестчестер , когда водитель остановил свой внедорожник на путях на переезде возле одного из крупнейших кладбищ в районе Нью-Йорка. Почти десять лет спустя, расследование NTSB и судебный иск, мы до сих пор не знаем, почему, потому что она тоже погибла. Daniel Case ( обсуждение ) 05:26, 2 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Комментарий

В целом в очень хорошей форме, хотя в тексте встречается 71 слово «авария», тогда как в RS оно употребляется всего несколько раз. Следует заменить его на более подходящие слова (катастрофа, пожар, столкновение, инцидент и т. д.). Мне в авиационной сфере бросили вызов за то, что я предлагаю то же самое, и сказали, что MOS перевешивает RS, но я думаю, что это не должно быть таким спорным для этой статьи Dreameditsbrooklyn ( обсуждение ) 11:14, 2 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Да, у нас было это обсуждение в прошлом году, а затем его продолжение . Все, что я могу сказать, это то, что по причинам, которые я привел в первом обсуждении, я понимаю вас, и что если консенсус будет достигнут по этому вопросу, я буду первым, кто внесет это изменение. Daniel Case ( обсуждение ) 02:53, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Изображения имеют соответствующую лицензию. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 15:20, 2 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

ТАОТ

Я буду рассматривать это в течение следующих дней. Я начну с лида и пойду в порядке разделов статьи.

Лид и инфобокс

• Вечером 3 февраля 2015 года пригородный поезд на линии Harlem компании Metro-North Railroad врезался в пассажирский вагон на переезде на Коммерс-стрит недалеко от Валгаллы, штат Нью-Йорк, США, между станциями Валгалла и Маунт-Плезант, в результате чего погибли шесть человек и 15 получили ранения, семеро из которых получили серьезные травмы. Это 307 символов; рекомендую разбить это на два предложения.

Я взял среднюю часть о том, между какими двумя станциями произошла авария (больше подробностей, чем нужно в статье), и выделил раздел о погибших и раненых в отдельное предложение. Daniel Case ( обсуждение ) 06:30, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Это самая смертоносная авария в истории Metro-North и на тот момент самая смертоносная железнодорожная авария в Соединенных Штатах. «Is» и «and at the time» не идут вместе, потому что «at the time» относится к прошлому событию, а «is» относится к чему-то в настоящем.

Сделанный

• как погибли пассажиры Предложите «как погибли пассажиры поезда», поскольку в вагоне тоже могут быть пассажиры.

Сделанный

• В 2024 году присяжные, слушавшие одно, признали железную дорогу и Броди ответственными за аварию. Что здесь означает «одно»? Слушание одного чего?

Добавлены слова «мастей».

• Для инфобокса предложите указать, что один вагон и автомобиль были уничтожены, а другой вагон поврежден. Trainsandotherthings ( обсуждение ) 01:35, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Измененный.

• Это мелочь, но знаки на перекрестке действительно должны быть «сигналами перекрестка», поскольку это перекресток с активными предупреждающими устройствами, а не просто дорожными знаками.

Сделанный.

• Предлагаю добавить ссылку на NTSB в подпись к фотографии в информационном окне.

Сделанный.

Я продолжу этот обзор в ближайшее время. Trainsandotherthings ( обсуждение ) 01:35, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Я ответил выше. У меня будет ограниченная возможность отвечать на комментарии здесь в начале этой недели , потому что я работаю на выборах во вторник ( а ...

Фон

• Электропоезд Bombardier M7A — это MOS:SOB .

Исправлено, хотя предложение стало немного более многословным.

• Предложите добавить ссылку на M7A в подпись к изображению.

Я тоже так сделал.

• Мне любопытно, как использовать "boom barrier", так как я почти уверен, что стандартная терминология в США - crossing gate. Я вижу, что crossing gate также связан в следующем разделе, хотя обе ссылки ведут на одну и ту же страницу.

Я не помню, чтобы я это писал... возможно, это был кто-то другой вскоре после начала статьи. Я изменил это на crossing gates, поскольку в цитируемой статье Times используется этот термин.

• Вероятно, стоит упомянуть, что M7A идут парами, иначе упоминания о 8 автомобилях и 4 M7A кажутся противоречивыми.

Готово Daniel Case ( обсуждение ) 06:43, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Действительно ли нужны все эти ссылки и упоминания местоположений округов? Имхо, они излишни и делают предложения слишком длинными.

Я их подрезал. Написание этого материала и описания схода поезда Spuyten Duyvil в декабре 2013 года во многом основывалось на моем опыте посещения различных станций Metro-North с моим сыном, когда он был младше, чтобы он мог делать фотографии и снимать видео, и на понимании работы Metro-North, которое я приобрел. Так что, возможно, я все еще думал так в то время, но сейчас уже не то время.

• Возможно, лучше всего изменить порядок второго и третьего абзацев, переключив темы на поезд, отправляющийся из GCT, а затем вернувшись к предыдущей теме в следующем абзаце.

Понял вашу точку зрения. Теперь читается лучше.

• Я действительно думаю, что поворот на Lakeview Avenue с северного Parkway — слишком много подробностей для этой статьи. Важно то, что Parkway был закрыт, не думаю, что это что-то добавляет к пониманию темы.

Немного ужесточил.

• Лейквью Авеню пересекло два пути с использованием переезда должно быть "пересекло два пути на переезде". Также переезд может быть связан.

Я написал «пересек рельсы на одном уровне» и связал всю фразу.

• После аварии на перекрестке Коммерс-стрит в 1984 году, в результате которой погиб водитель фургона, слово «had» было удалено.

Сделанный.

• Предложения, в которых обсуждается Коммерс-стрит, должны быть согласованы по времени: здесь используется как настоящее, так и прошедшее время.

Я изменил «следующий перекресток был» на «есть»; очевидно, он все еще там. Daniel Case ( обсуждение ) 07:05, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Крушение

• Почему после слова «Алан» стоит цитата?

Я переместил его в конец предложения. Полагаю, я мог оставить его там по какой-то причине, возможно, временно, когда я преобразовал ссылку на отчет NTSB в {{ sfn }} . Или там могло быть больше в начале предложения. Daniel Case ( talk ) 05:55, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Не нравится организация первого абзаца. Вы начинаете с того, что водитель едет по Коммерс-стрит, затем возвращаетесь к тому, что она была на Таконике и ей пришлось свернуть из-за аварии. Подумайте о том, чтобы переработать этот абзац, чтобы упорядочить события.

Это потребовало больше работы, чем все остальное, что было до сих пор в этом FAC. Но именно поэтому они у нас есть.

• Та же проблема прослеживается и в следующем абзаце, где утверждается, что телефонный звонок состоялся еще до того, как водитель покинул парковку.

В итоге мне пришлось переписать эти три графика, так что теперь все в порядке. Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 03:08, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Разве не является оригинальным исследованием утверждение о том, что утверждение о том, что вы услышали звонок, было неверным, и ссылка на отчет об инспекции, первичный документ? В цитируемом источнике также нет ничего, что подтверждало бы, что в Нью-Йорке звонки требуются только для пешеходных переходов . Кроме того, поезда часто оснащаются звонками в качестве предупреждающего устройства. Мой совет здесь был бы просто сказать, что инспекция после аварии обнаружила, что переход не был оборудован звонком.

В отчете NTSB яснее указано, что на переезде не было звонка, и есть сноска, поясняющая, что это не требуется. Я взял этот источник и ограничил формулировку в конце сноски только тем, что говорят источники. (Тем не менее, я не знаю, были ли бы поездные звонки такими же слышимыми, как любые переездные звонки, если бы они были).

• При нажатии на воздушные тормоза следует «применить экстренное торможение », как указано в отчете NTSB.

Измененный.

• Пассажиры первого вагона вспоминали, что их выбросило со своих сидений при ударе, когда начался пожар. До этого момента никаких упоминаний о пожаре не было, поэтому следует говорить «пожар».

Измененный.

• пока не было отправлено ручное управление Это было из диспетчерской на Гранд Сентрал? Можете ли вы указать, кто сделал управление?

NTSB приписывает это офису директора по электроснабжению Metro-North. За исключением другого источника, который утверждает, что офис находится в Grand Central (что, конечно, меня не удивит, если так и есть), мы не можем сказать ничего большего. Daniel Case ( обсуждение ) 03:39, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

На страницах 23–24 отчета NTSB говорится, что офис директора по электроснабжению находится на Центральном вокзале. Trainsandotherthings ( обсуждение ) 19:54, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Он на странице 23. Я добавил его и соответствующим образом исправил сноску. Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 06:31, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Ссылка на первое упоминание третьего рельса.

Готово. Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 03:39, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Жертвы

• Аналитика акций — еще один выпуск MOS:SOB , поскольку читатель ожидает статью на тему аналитика акций .

Изменено на это. Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 07:55, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Продолжу с конца раздела жертв. Trainsandotherthings ( обсуждение ) 23:05, 6 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Последствия

• Можно ли нам шаблоны инфляции для цифр затрат? Я много раз становился жертвой таких запросов в FAC, и теперь я могу навязать их вам (шутка).

О, нет проблем. Это не приходило мне в голову, на самом деле, поскольку большую часть времени существования этой статьи это было так недавно, что никто бы не подумал включить это. Но теперь прошло почти десять лет, так что да — и, конечно, это легко, потому что я делал это во многих других статьях.

• Это придирка, но я никогда не видел, чтобы в США кто-то использовал написание «high-rail», обычно используют hi-rail или hirail.

Я всегда слышал, как их называли hi-los — идея в том, что они высокие относительно рельсов, но низкие относительно дороги. Но ... это не в теме статьи по ссылке. Поэтому я выбрал hi-rail, что и есть.

• Временный пастор церкви Св. Марии Девы в Надоле отметил, что такие общины, как Чаппакуа, зависят от пригородного железнодорожного сообщения по экономическим и культурным причинам. Нужна ли эта запятая? Мне она кажется неуместной, но, возможно, есть какая-то штука в MOS, которая говорит, что я не прав.

Вынул. Думаю, в какой-то момент мы использовали его имя, поэтому его должностная инструкция была аппозитивной фразой. Daniel Case ( обсуждение ) 03:15, 13 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Расследование

• Есть ли шанс рассказать немного больше о команде NTSB? Сколько было членов и как долго они в конечном итоге оставались?

Я только что внимательно посмотрел. В оригинальном пресс-релизе NTSB говорится только о том, что они отправляют "команду на место" и кто ее возглавляет, но не о том, сколько именно членов. Полагаю, более подробная информация может быть в финансовых отчетах агентства, которые, хотя они, вероятно, и публичны, не являются тем, что регулярно выкладывают в сеть.

• Если вы можете найти место, было бы неплохо показать фотографию контактного башмака с третьим рельсом, чтобы проиллюстрировать, как это работает. Фотография, показывающая, что третьи рельсы, используемые MTA, часто имеют крышку, также может быть хорошим дополнением.

Хм. Я провел много времени, размышляя, как я мог бы это сделать, после того, как впервые прочитал это. Я понял, что лучше всего сделать такой снимок — или даже лучше видео — на станции с соседним переездом, которых, конечно, несколько на электрифицированной части линии Гарлем против ни одного на более короткой электрифицированной части линии Гудзон. Там вы можете иметь дело с замедлением поезда и/или его полной остановкой, чтобы сделать снимок более простым.

Brewster кажется идеальным для этого, так как у вас есть третьи рельсы снаружи, и они проходят близко к переезду, и их можно фотографировать или снимать на видео из-за или через близлежащее ограждение, особенно на северо-восточном и юго-западном углах. Плюс, это удобно, ближайшая пара переезд/станция к месту, где я живу (хотя все равно немного ехать).

Хотелось бы, чтобы вы подняли эту возможность пару недель назад, теперь, когда Metro-North возобновила свой ежегодный День открытых дверей в Кротон-Хармоне. Возможно, было бы проще доставить это туда.

Разумеется, как вы и предложили, это не обязательно делать сейчас, но мне нравится эта идея, и я думаю, что мы сможем сделать это скоро.

• уменьшить вероятность непреднамеренного контакта с высоковольтным рельсом Предложите прояснить, что вы имеете в виду контакт людей (или диких животных, или чего-либо, что не является контактным башмаком поезда) с третьим рельсом, очевидно, вы хотели бы, чтобы контактный башмак соприкасался с третьим рельсом. Я понимаю, что вы здесь говорите, но это немного сбивает с толку, когда это следует сразу за объяснением, что подкат предназначен для предотвращения нарастания льда (и, предположительно, создания проблем для контактных башмаков).

Добавлена ​​формулировка по этому поводу

• Перечисляя функции безопасности во втором с конца абзаце, вы не включили мигающие огни, хотя, насколько я понимаю, они тоже работали правильно.

Добавлено. Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 06:41, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Отчеты и выводы

• Это Руководство по унифицированным устройствам управления дорожным движением, а не Руководство по. Легко ошибиться, я работаю с MUTCD ежедневно на своей основной работе, и если бы вы сказали мне, что это "Руководство по", я бы, вероятно, поверил. Наверное, поэтому мы все называем его просто MUTCD на работе.
• Я просмотрел свой экземпляр Train Wrecks Роберта С. Рида, и он согласен, что столкновения с участием рельса, проходящего через днище вагона поезда, очень редки и были с тех пор, как стали широко распространены стальные рельсы, но, к сожалению, они были обычным явлением, когда в 1800-х годах использовались ременные рельсы. Он говорит, что терминология для такого события в железнодорожной катастрофе — «змееголов». Не уверен, что это означает, что нужно вносить какие-либо изменения в статью, но я подумал, что вам это будет интересно.
• третьи рельсы были спроектированы так, чтобы при авариях они ломались и падали в сторону. Это должно быть «падением»?
• Вы пишете : «Но в этом случае, за исключением двух случаев, 6-футовые (2-метровые) секции третьего рельса в основном остались соединенными в более крупные секции средней длиной 39 футов (12 м) и весом в тонну (800 кг) каждая, поскольку они были сложены в первом и втором вагонах, но в отчете NTSB говорится: «Из 11 извлеченных секций третьего рельса пять были длиной около 39 футов», что, как мне кажется, говорит о чем-то другом.

Официальные ответы после аварии

• Второе предложение здесь очень длинное, предлагаю разбить его на два.
• Можно ли обновить раздел о предлагаемом закрытии? Там нет четкого указания, были ли закрыты переходы или нет.
• Почему Operation Lifesaver сокращенно обозначается как OLI (в отличие от OL)? В отчете NTSB этого не сделано.

Судебные разбирательства

• Большинство из них были от пассажиров, получивших ранения или погибших. Предлагаю добавить что-то вроде «или их выживших родственников».

Другой

• После даты получения внешней ссылки стоят две точки, хотя, скорее всего, должна быть только одна.
• На этом все. Я сделаю еще одно прочтение, как только вы ответите на эти комментарии, и тогда я ожидаю поддержать продвижение. Trainsandotherthings ( обсуждение ) 19:54, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Генералиссимус

Очень солидная проза. Я взял на себя смелость исправить несколько порядков цитирования.

• В абзаце, начинающемся со слов «Звонок был прерван », при первом упоминании о ней следует сказать «Броуди» вместо «она».

Я пошел дальше. Я изменил его на "Alan's" по MOS:SAMESURNAME . Daniel Case ( обсуждение ) 06:33, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Это также происходит несколько раз в поведении водителя.

Опять же, согласно MOS:SAMESURNAME , я использовал «Аллан» и «Эллен». Дэниел Кейс ( обс .) 06:41, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Согласно MOS:EMPHASIS , используйте теги em при выделении курсивом текста, например, когда вы выделяете текст в разделе «Дизайн третьих рельсов».

Готово. Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 06:48, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Других проблем не вижу. Генералиссима ( обсуждение ) (оно/она) 01:44, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
  • Мне кажется, это хорошо - Поддержка . Генералиссима ( обсуждение ) (оно/она) 18:53, 6 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

НАПРИМЕР

Я оставлю несколько комментариев позже. Я не уверен, могу ли я официально !голосовать за номинацию, так как у меня, похоже, второе по количеству правок в этой статье, но, думаю, я спрошу координаторов FAC, когда мы дойдем до этого момента. – Epicgenius ( talk ) 23:59, 5 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Я просто заявлю для протокола, что у меня нет возражений против вашего участия. Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 20:42, 6 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Вести:

• Пункт 2: «первый вагон» — точнее, первый вагон поезда (поскольку «вагон» здесь может быть неверно истолкован как «частное транспортное средство»).

Я выбрал «переднюю машину».

• Пункт 3: «Исследователи из Национального совета по безопасности на транспорте (NTSB) сосредоточились на двух вопросах, связанных с аварией: как погибли пассажиры поезда, поскольку это редко случается при столкновениях на переездах; и почему Броди выехал на путь поезда». — Я понимаю, почему вы использовали точку с запятой; она может встречаться в списках с тремя и более элементами, где хотя бы один элемент имеет запятую. Однако обычно она не используется в списках, содержащих только два элемента. В противном случае это означало бы, что «и почему Броди выехал на путь поезда» — это отдельное предложение, но это не так. Я предлагаю добавить тире, например, «как погибли пассажиры поезда, поскольку это редко случается при столкновениях на переездах, и почему Броди выехал на путь поезда».
• Пункт 3: «город Маунт-Плезант, который обслуживает Коммерс-стрит, округ Вестчестер, железную дорогу и инженера» — И наоборот, здесь можно добавить точки с запятой, например, «город Маунт-Плезант, который обслуживает Коммерс-стрит; округ Вестчестер; железную дорогу; и инженера». Это потому, что «который обслуживает Коммерс-стрит» не является стороной в судебном процессе, а скорее разъясняет участие города Маунт-Плезант в судебном процессе.

Все сделано. Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 06:26, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Фон:

• Абзац 1: «Около 5:30 вечера 3 февраля 2015 года, через 14 минут после захода солнца» — я бы изменил на «...через четырнадцать минут после захода солнца» или перефразировал бы это, чтобы увеличить расстояние между «2015» и «14» в соответствии с MOS:NUMNOTES , который советует «избегать неловких сопоставлений», таких как это.
• Пункт 1: «обе полосы движения Taconic на юг и одна полоса движения на север» — как насчет «обе полосы движения Taconic на юг и одна полоса движения на север»?
• Пункт 2: "Электропоезда Bombardier M7A" - Это довольно серьезный случай WP:SEAOFBLUE ; есть три ссылки в ряд без какого-либо указания на то, что эти ссылки являются отдельными. Я бы либо указал расстояние между этими ссылками (например, четыре электропоезда M7A производства Bombardier ), либо удалил бы две из них. На самом деле, я вижу, что TAOT упомянул об этом выше.
• Пункт 3: "Lakeview Avenue пересекла два пути, используя железнодорожный переезд" - Формулировка "пересекла... используя железнодорожный переезд" кажется немного повторяющейся. Есть ли способ перефразировать это?

Я рассмотрел первые два; на последние также указал TAOT, и я рассмотрел их в ответ на его комментарии. И я хочу поблагодарить вас за то, что вы снова сосредоточили мое внимание на этом разделе, поскольку, просматривая его, я обратил внимание не только на пару незначительных ошибок в копировании, но и на некоторую неловкость в разделе в целом (например, мы упомянули Лейквью, пересекающую «пути» задолго до того, как упомянули поезд, и поскольку мы ничего не сказали о линии, идущей параллельно Taconic в тот момент, читатель, который, скажем, не имел возможности за годы после крушения спуститься на место, прогуляться и сделать фотографии, не будет иметь абсолютно никакого представления об этом. Или, теперь, имел бы . Дэниел Кейс ( обсуждение ) 06:51, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Завтра, возможно, будет больше. – Epicgenius ( обсуждение ) 15:53, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

РойСмит

Я рассмотрел это в PR. Я, вероятно, не буду делать еще один полный обзор, но я рад сообщить, что большинство вопросов, которые я поднял тогда, особенно те, которые касались чрезмерной детализации, были решены. Я упомянул в PR о своей обеспокоенности тем, что подавляющее число источников были из местных новостных СМИ сразу после крушения. Я вижу, что это все еще в значительной степени верно. С другой стороны, для статьи, подобной этой, это может быть просто неизбежно; если существуют такие источники, то это то, что мы должны использовать. Я взял на себя смелость загрузить новую версию изображения рельса с некоторыми корректировками экспозиции, которые лучше выявляют детали.

Комментарии от ZKang123

Я бы на это взглянул.

Вести:

• Шесть человек погибли и 15 получили ранения, семеро из которых получили очень серьезные травмы. – Добавление факта «семеро получили очень серьезные травмы» звучит довольно неэнциклопедично и неловко. Можно предложить перефразировать так: Шесть человек погибли и 15 получили ранения, семеро из которых получили тяжелые травмы.
• Предложения, начинающиеся с The crash happened after traffic... и At the grade crossing, a sport utility vehicle (SUV), довольно многословны и могут быть разбиты. В частности, мне потребовалось некоторое время, чтобы понять первое предложение, что движение с определенной дороги было перенаправлено на местные дороги после инцидента.
• Броди погибла, когда ее автомобиль был сбит поездом; когда ее автомобиль толкали по путям, он ослабил более 450 футов (140 м) третьего рельса, который разломился на секции и прошел через внешнюю часть переднего вагона поезда, убив пять пассажиров и вызвав пожар. – Также это предложение можно было бы переписать так: Броди погибла, когда поезд врезался в ее автомобиль и вытолкнул его на пути. Столкновение повредило более 450 футов (140 м) третьего рельса, что привело к пожару и гибели еще пяти пассажиров. Или что-то еще, что сохранит смысл.
• При использовании длинного тире пробелы не требуются, если только вы не используете короткое тире.
• В окончательном отчете совета за 2017 год было установлено, что причиной аварии стал водитель внедорожника. Не было обнаружено никаких дефектов в транспортном средстве, перекрёстных сигналах и связанном с ними упреждении сигналов светофора или в работе машиниста поезда. – В окончательном отчете совета за 2017 год было установлено, что причиной аварии стал водитель внедорожника, после того как не было обнаружено никаких проблем с работой машиниста поезда или никаких дефектов в транспортном средстве, перекрёстных сигналах и связанном с ними упреждении сигналов светофора.
• Удалите точку с запятой и поставьте вместо нее точку.
• Я думаю, что каким-то образом выводы комиссии можно было бы подробнее обобщить; не все детали должны быть там. Особенно, когда ранее вы сказали, что поврежденный третий рельс также убил пассажиров.
• В 2024 году присяжные, рассматривавшие один из исков, признали железную дорогу и Броуди ответственными за аварию. – Я думаю, что «один из исков» делает предложение немного запутанным и может быть удалено. Я думаю, что переписанное предложение В 2024 году присяжные, рассматривавшие один из исков, признали железную дорогу... имеет больше смысла.

Продолжение следует.-- ZKang123 ( обсуждение ) 04:34, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

День независимости (Нигерия)

Номинатор(ы): Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 22:05, 31 октября 2024 (UTC)[ отвечать ]

День независимости Нигерии, в просторечии известный как Первое октября, отмечается ежегодно 1 октября в ознаменование обретения страной независимости от британского правления в 1960 году. Он знаменует собой окончание колониального правления и становление Нигерии как суверенной республики .

Раскрытие информации: я планирую убедиться, что эта статья появится на главной странице как сегодняшняя избранная статья 1 октября 2025 года (думаю, лучше зарезервировать место заранее :-)). Так что я буквально готов выполнить любую разумную работу, предложенную любым редактором :) Заранее благодарю за ваши комментарии и помощь. Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 22:05, 31 октября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Обзор изображения

• Альтернативный текст не должен совпадать с подписью — он должен дополнять подпись для тех, кто не может увидеть изображение.

  Я сделал некоторые исправления для alts, можете проверить и посмотреть, все ли с ними в порядке? Спасибо! -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 09:40, 1 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Они по-прежнему в значительной степени такие же, как и подписи - Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Accessibility/Alternative_text_for_images#How_to_write_alternative_text содержит некоторые рекомендации, которые могут быть полезны. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 23:57, 1 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

  @ Nikkimaria Разве я не могу просто написать, |alt=refer to captionтак как не вижу, как альтернативный текст не будет похож на подпись? Если вы не считаете, что это нормально, то, пожалуйста, предложите, как именно я могу написать alt, используя одно из изображений в качестве примера. Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 08:53, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Например, для файла:Nigerian_Day_Independence_,_NYC_-_2018.jpg alt может быть таким: «Группа девушек машет нигерийскими флагами на углу улицы»; вы можете добавить подробности об их одежде, женщине или прилавках на заднем плане, если посчитаете это важным. Nikkimaria ( talk ) 00:09, 5 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria Большое спасибо, это очень помогло. Я теперь исправил альтернативные тексты. Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 09:07, 5 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Файл:National_Pageant_1st_October_1960.jpg: откуда это лицензирование? То же Файл:Jaja-Wachuku,_Abubakar_Tafawa_Balewa_and_Princess_Alexandra_of_kent_on_Nigeria_s_Independence_Day_October_1,_1960.jpg, Файл:The_Prime_Minister,_Sir_Abubakar_Tafawa_Balewa_on_Independence_Day,_October_1,_1960.jpg. Nikkimaria ( talk ) 04:11, 1 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria : Эти изображения находятся в общественном достоянии, поскольку являются фотографическими работами и с момента их публикации прошло 50 лет. c:Template:PD-Nigeria. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 09:40, 1 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Они не помечены как PD-Nigeria, а как CC0 - если это не так, то теги следует изменить, а для PD-Nigeria также потребуется тег США и информация о первой публикации. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 23:57, 1 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

  Хорошо, я пометил изображения. Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 13:29, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Вы изменили теги на PD-Nigeria, но, как уже отмечалось, вам также необходимо добавить теги США и информацию о первой публикации. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 04:49, 4 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

  @ Nikkimaria Проверяя теги США, я увидел довольно много. Можете ли вы указать мне точный тег, которым я должен их пометить, пожалуйста? Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 09:07, 5 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Если вы можете определить, где и когда каждый из них был впервые опубликован, то диаграмма Хиртла сделает именно это. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 01:04, 6 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria Отлично! Это помогло. Я использую c:Template:PD-1996. Шаблон позволяет только указать код или название страны (в данном случае NG), но не предоставляет параметр для даты первой публикации. Как мне это указать? следует ли использовать параметр, |reason=чтобы просто указать дату первой публикации? Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 10:32, 6 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Вы можете добавить сведения о публикации в поле Источник в описании изображения. Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 00:53, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

  @ Nikkimaria Отлично! Большое спасибо за ваши указания. Я не внес все исправления в изображения. Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 12:08, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Я не вижу никаких подробностей публикации на этих изображениях? Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 23:28, 7 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria Упс, в своем комментарии выше я имел в виду «я уже вступил в силу». Я добавил первые даты публикации, соответствующие теги PD и т. д. Это то, что вы просили, если я не ошибаюсь? Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 00:03, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  В дополнение к изменению тегов, нам также нужно знать , где и когда они были опубликованы. Я вижу даты, но не где atm. Nikkimaria ( talk ) 00:06, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria Я добавил место публикации в шаблоны информации. Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 09:02, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Можете ли вы быть немного более конкретным? Если кто-то хочет проверить дату и место публикации, где это можно сделать? Есть ли конкретная публикация, на которую можно сослаться? Nikkimaria ( talk ) 00:29, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria в этом суть. Эти изображения находятся в Национальной библиотеке Нигерии, вы буквально не можете найти ничего об их публикационных данных в Интернете, немногие детали, которые я смог найти в библиотеке, это дата и место (я мог бы быть более конкретным, используя Лагос, Нигерия). Даже в библиотеке не знают первоначальных авторов, или, скорее, они не смогли идентифицировать первоначальных авторов. Так что, да. Лучшее, что я могу сделать сейчас, это добавить Лагос к дате публикации. Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 05:31, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Есть ли онлайн-запись этих изображений на сайте библиотеки? Nikkimaria ( обсуждение ) 05:50, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria Да, я нашел для двоих

  Национальный конкурс: https://nigeriareposit.nln.gov.ng/items/18603459-3eaa-41fc-8f1d-21fc8b607547

  Балева и компания на балконе: https://nigeriareposit.nln.gov.ng/items/0ac3bce7-2b0c-46b0-828f-f53f0182750f

  Я еще не видел того, которым он размахивал. Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 09:05, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria Готово. Я связал эти два, добавил Абуджу, Нигерия, как место публикации (по крайней мере, согласно Библиотеке). Третье изображение, похоже, отсутствует на их сайте, поэтому я не ссылался на него. Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 15:12, 10 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Известно ли, что дата публикации, а не создания? Я не вижу, чтобы это было указано на сайте. Nikkimaria ( talk ) 00:29, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria Хотя там есть только «Дата», на сайте есть способ «Просмотреть ресурсы», один способ — по «Автору», другой — по «Названию», третий — по «Дате выпуска». Это говорит мне, что «Дата» для этих изображений — это «дата выпуска», которая, скорее всего, совпадает с датой публикации изображений, а не с датой создания, хотя я думаю, что это одна и та же дата. Я имею в виду, если вы спросите меня, дата создания и дата публикации — это одно и то же, особенно для этих изображений. Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 00:42, 11 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria Пожалуйста, посмотрите на это сейчас? Я сделал то, что было предложено. Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 17:33, 14 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  Не могли бы вы пояснить, почему вы считаете, что дата создания и публикации этих изображений будет одинаковой? Nikkimaria ( talk ) 00:08, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

  @ Nikkimaria Итак, предположим, что сегодня День независимости, и мы устраиваем национальный праздник. Будут сделаны фотографии, эти фотографии будут отправлены в СМИ для публикации?... подчеркивая то, что происходит или произошло в этот день. Это нормально. Как нигериец, я ТОЧНО знаю, что эти изображения были опубликованы в тот же день, когда они были сделаны. Я не знаю, как еще это объяснить. Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 00:28, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• Конечно, но это не значит, что каждая фотография, сделанная в этот день, попадет в публикацию — фотограф может сделать десятки снимков и опубликовать только один или два. Nikkimaria ( talk ) 00:30, 15 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

УК

Всегда приятно видеть номинацию на статью, которая немного расширяет интересы и сферу охвата Википедии, а если посмотреть на ее историю, то можно увидеть, что за последние десять дней она явно значительно улучшилась.

• Здесь есть несколько предложений, которые кажутся мне немного «мутными»: если вдуматься, то они либо говорят что-то тривиальное, либо не говорят ничего особенного. Вот несколько примеров:
  • Этот день... имеет историческое значение как кульминация усилий по самоуправлению после десятилетий колониального правления и наступает сразу после предложения, в котором говорится, что праздник посвящен независимости от Великобритании.
  • знаменуя вступление Нигерии в международное сообщество в качестве независимого государства (опять же, мы только что сказали, что это был день, когда Нигерия стала независимой, и это то же самое, только более точно)
  • На протяжении многих лет День независимости продолжает отражать политические и социальные изменения в Нигерии. : его нужно либо конкретизировать, либо урезать: сам день не изменился, но, возможно, изменился способ его празднования.
  • Объединение Северного и Южного протекторатов в 1914 году было ключевым событием в политической истории Нигерии : почему бы просто не ограничиться фактическим утверждением, что Нигерия была создана путем слияния двух протекторатов в 1914 году? Если это было ключевым событием по причинам, выходящим за рамки очевидных, мы можем так сказать, но я не уверен, что это было так.
  • Ежегодные празднования Дня независимости предоставляют возможность поразмышлять об истории страны с 1960 года.
• Большая часть лида, кажется, обсуждает независимость Нигерии и ее историю после обретения независимости, а не саму тему статьи: см. этот длинный раздел: После обретения независимости Нигерия столкнулась с проблемами, включая политическую нестабильность, гражданский конфликт и военные перевороты. Гражданская война в Нигерии (1967–1970), также известная как Биафранская война, была значительным конфликтом, который оказал долгосрочное влияние на развитие страны. Несмотря на эти проблемы, Нигерия усилила свое региональное и международное влияние. Будучи самой густонаселенной страной Африки и одной из ее крупнейших экономик, Нигерия играет видную роль как в региональных, так и в мировых делах.
• Некоторые формулировки звучат как рекламные — см., например:
  • более инклюзивные мероприятия, охватывающие культурное разнообразие Нигерии
  • Несмотря на эти проблемы , региональное и международное влияние Нигерии возросло.
  • Независимость была достигнута путем переговоров с Великобританией, в отличие от других африканских стран, которые добились независимости путем конфликта.
  • Традиционные танцы, культурные мероприятия и парады подчеркнули разнообразное этническое наследие Нигерии.
  • Балева признал многообразие нации и воздал должное усилиям нигерийских националистов, чья решимость сделала независимость возможной.
  • Событие также вызвало резонанс на всем африканском континенте, символизируя вхождение Нигерии в растущий список новых независимых государств в ходе волны деколонизации.
    • Я исправил это из раздела «Независимость в 1960 году». -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 13:54, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• В целом, статью необходимо немного доработать с точки зрения «мелочей», таких как MoS и грамматика: см., например:
  • Обычно ли слово «October First» пишется с двойной заглавной буквы в нигерийском английском?
    • Я воспринимаю это как существительное, поэтому пишу его с заглавной буквы, поскольку существительные обычно пишутся с заглавной буквы. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 13:54, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
      • Собственные имена обычно пишутся с заглавной буквы, но даты обычно не считаются именами собственными. Из поиска в Google Книгах видно, что нигерийские писатели обычно используют обе заглавные буквы, когда говорят о празднике, а не просто о дате, так что это нормально в любом случае. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 16:23, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
  • Я не думаю, что параметр «литургический колорит» в информационном поле совсем верен: этот термин имеет определенное христианское значение.
    • Я удалил этот параметр. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 13:54, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
  • На церемонии провозглашения независимости 1 октября 1960 года присутствовали международные представители : здесь запятая не нужна.
    • Это было частью того, над чем я работал, поэтому у нас больше нет этого заявления; теперь оно есть Празднование Дня независимости включало официальную церемонию в Лагосе, на которой присутствовали нигерийские лидеры и международные представители . -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 13:54, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
  • с посланиями Генерального секретаря, отмечающими вклад Нигерии : это не идиоматический английский: лучше сформулировать как прямое предложение, что Генеральные секретари опубликовали послания (и т.д.).
    • Я работал над всем разделом, но сейчас у нас есть возможность, чтобы генеральные секретари выпускали сообщения, в которых хвалят вклад Нигерии в . Это нормально?
  • Нигерия была британской колонией более шестидесяти лет : мы на самом деле не устанавливаем дату начала этого периода ни здесь, ни в статье, но должны. Я понимаю, что это немного сложно, но известны даты, когда первые части Нигерии попали под британские колонии, и когда последние части Нигерии перестали быть независимыми, и ни одна из них не 1914 год.
    • Я полностью удалил это. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 14:01, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Я собираюсь остановиться на этом сейчас — это не исчерпывающий список, но общие положения, поднятые в статье, кажутся проходящими через всю статью, и я думаю, что было бы лучше дать вам возможность поработать над ними, прежде чем возвращаться к ней. Я отмечаю, что она, похоже, не была номинирована как Хорошая статья и не прошла Рецензирование, и интересно, могут ли они быть хорошими портами захода перед запуском FAC? UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 21:25, 1 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

@ UndercoverClassicist Большое спасибо за комментарии, я сейчас над этим поработаю и дам вам знать, когда закончу. Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 12:36, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

@ UndercoverClassicist Я значительно поработал над заголовком, особенно основываясь на ваших комментариях. Возможно, вы захотите взглянуть на него, пока я буду отвечать на ваши другие комментарии в строке, основываясь на статусе. Спасибо еще раз. Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 13:11, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Я вижу изменения, но не уверен, что баланс действительно сместился по поднятым мной вопросам, особенно в отношении рекламного тона. Я собираюсь возразить на данный момент: дело не в том, что это плохая статья (это очень далеко от этого), а в том, что я считаю, что работа, необходимая для того, чтобы сделать ее FA, лучше всего была бы начата в другом месте (в частности, в одном или нескольких рецензиях, тщательной номинации на хорошую статью или в Гильдии редакторов). Я сочувствую, поскольку редактирование собственного текста для тона — дело непростое. Очень открыт для пересмотра этого голосования, если я ошибаюсь и ситуация существенно изменится, возможно, после еще нескольких рецензий. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 16:23, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

@ UndercoverClassicist Ах, я на самом деле уже работал над переписыванием на основе ваших комментариев, только чтобы увидеть это. Я включил свое переписывание в статью, пожалуйста, вы можете захотеть проверить их. Они были особенно основаны на опасениях, которые вы подняли выше. Я не вижу необходимости проводить это через рецензирование или GoCE, когда я в гильдии и сам являюсь редактором. Хотя я как-то согласен, что копирайтинг собственного текста для тона может быть сложным. Но, пожалуйста, посмотрите, спасибо еще раз! Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 19:15, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Ладно, в таком случае я неправильно понял. Я только что перечитал еще раз и не вижу ничего, что я хотел бы изменить в своих комментариях на данный момент. UndercoverClassicist ^{T · C} 19:22, 3 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

РБ

Спасибо за эту номинацию VWF . Я буду делать целостность исходного текста-записей заявления. Это означает, что я буду проверять каждое заявление по каждому цитируемому источнику. Если я не смогу получить доступ к какому-либо источнику, я попрошу вас отправить его мне, скорее всего, в частном порядке. Сверху вниз, вот несколько:

Колониальная эпоха и путь к независимости

• Путь Нигерии к независимости был отмечен британской колонизацией и ростом националистических движений, стремящихся к большей автономии и представительству. цитируется по Falola & Heaton 2008 pp=154–155. Хотя исходный текст подтверждает рост националистических движений, стремящихся к автономии и сплоченному национальному правительству, он явно не поддерживает полный контекст «британской колонизации», отмечающей путь к независимости. Что-то вроде этого было бы лучше, путь Нигерии к независимости включал националистические усилия, отмеченные установлением регионального самоуправления в соответствии с Конституцией Литтлтона и объединением различных региональных партий для формирования национального правительства.
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 11:02, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]
• Британские интересы в ресурсах, торговле и имперской экспансии привели к колонизации Нигерии в конце 19 века. К 1914 году британская администрация объединила Северный и Южный протектораты с колонией Лагос , образовав Нигерию. Хотя объединение стимулировало экономическую деятельность, оно ввело централизованное управление для различных культурных групп, что часто приводило к политической напряженности. цитируется по Simwa 2020. Источник поддерживает утверждение, что британская территориальная экспансия началась с Лагоса. Он также подтверждает, что объединение Северного и Южного протекторатов с Лагосом произошло в 1914 году, образовав то, что сейчас является современной Нигерией. Но в источнике нет конкретного упоминания о «британских интересах в торговле и имперской экспансии» как основных движущих силах усилий по колонизации, и он не предоставляет прямых доказательств о влиянии централизованного управления на экономическую деятельность и региональную динамику после объединения. Предложение : Британское колониальное вмешательство в Нигерию началось с аннексии Лагоса в 1861 году, что ознаменовало начало прямого влияния на регион. В 1914 году британская администрация объединила Северный и Южный протектораты вместе с колонией Лагос, официально образовав современную Нигерию . Это объединение заложило основу для централизованной административной структуры в различных регионах.
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 11:02, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]
• В начале 20 века нигерийские интеллектуалы и лидеры, включая Герберта Маколея и Ннамди Азикиве , пропагандировали политическое сознание и подвергали сомнению колониальную политику. цитируется по Falola & Heaton 2008 p=140. Поскольку исходный текст в основном подчеркивает раннюю роль Герберта Маколея в нигерийских националистических движениях и его влияние в Лагосе, я предполагаю, что в начале 20 века Герберт Маколей и его последователи в Лагосе заложили основу нигерийского национализма, выступая за конституционные права и расширение политического представительства в условиях колониального правления.
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 11:02, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]
• Создание Нигерийского молодежного движения (NYM) в 1930-х годах ознаменовало собой призыв к расширению политического представительства. цитируется по Falola & Heaton 2008 p=141. Это подтверждается, поскольку источник верно это подтверждает, но небольшая корректировка могла бы повысить ясность, включив первоначальную направленность NYM и последующее расширение, как это Нигерийское молодежное движение (NYM), созданное в 1930-х годах, изначально было сосредоточено на образовательных реформах, но быстро переросло в призыв к расширению политического представительства и паннигерийскому национализму.
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 11:02, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]
• К 1940-м годам стремление к независимости усилилось, что привело к конституционным изменениям, таким как Конституция Ричардса 1946 года, которая допускала ограниченное участие Нигерии в управлении. цитируется по Falola & Heaton 2008, стр. 148 и Tignor 1998, стр. 207. Это подтверждается, поскольку оба источника предоставляют доказательства того, что к 1940-м годам националистическое движение Нигерии и стремление к независимости набрали обороты, и конституционные реформы были частью ответа на это растущее политическое сознание. Мое предложение К 1940-м годам националистическое движение Нигерии усилилось, что привело к конституционным изменениям, таким как Конституция Ричардса 1947 года, которая расширила нигерийское представительство в управлении и впервые ввела региональные ассамблеи.
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 11:02, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Я бы оставил вас с этим на данный момент. Всего наилучшего, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 05:27, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Спасибо за это, RB . Я сделал вышеперечисленное. Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 11:03, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

@ Vanderwaalforces , пожалуйста, смотрите больше ниже. С наилучшими пожеланиями, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 13:17, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

• По мере того, как росло националистическое давление, британцы проводили дальнейшие реформы, включая Конституцию Макферсона 1951 года, которая расширила законодательное представительство, цитируется по Tignor 1998, стр. 228 ; Falola & Heaton 2008, стр. 152. , и Конституцию Литтлтона 1954 года, которая установила федеральную систему. цитируется по Falola & Heaton 2008, стр. 153. Falola & Heaton подтверждают, что эта конституция позволяла нигерийским министрам и представителям из разных регионов расширять политическую структуру, чтобы лучше включать голоса нигерийцев в управление. Tignor также подтверждает, что Конституция Макферсона «увеличила избирательные полномочия африканцев». Falola & Heaton стр. 153 четко заявляет, что Конституция Литтлтона установила Нигерию как федерацию, а Лагос — как федеральную территорию. Это подтверждает вторую часть утверждения. Предлагаемая перефразировка для полной проверяемости; По мере роста националистического давления британцы провели дальнейшие реформы, включая Конституцию Макферсона 1951 года, которая ввела региональные ассамблеи и увеличила представительство Нигерии в центральном законодательном органе. ( Tignor 1998, стр. 228 ; Falola & Heaton 2008, стр. 152 ) Конституция Литтлтона 1954 года установила Нигерию как федерацию , а Лагос был обозначен как федеральная территория . ( Falola & Heaton 2008, стр. 153' ')
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 15:23, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• Несмотря на эти шаги, нигерийские лидеры продолжали требовать полной автономии. Возникли политические организации, такие как Национальный совет Нигерии и Камеруна (NCNC), Группа действий (AG) и Северный народный конгресс (NPC), представляющие различные региональные и этнические интересы. цитируется по Falola & Heaton 2008, стр. 144–145, 254. и Tignor 1998, стр. 235, 262–263. Текст в значительной степени проверен относительно появления NCNC и AG как политических организаций, представляющих региональные интересы, как подробно описано как у Falola & Heaton (стр. 144–145, 254), так и у Tignor (стр. 235, 262–263). Однако на предоставленных страницах нет прямого упоминания о Северном народном конгрессе (NPC), а также явных ссылок на продолжающиеся требования полной автономии. Предлагаемая перефразировка: Несмотря на колониальные попытки реформ, нигерийские лидеры стремились к дальнейшей автономии. Национальный совет Нигерии и Камеруна (NCNC) под руководством Ннамди Азикиве стал видным деятелем, выступающим за общенигерийскую идентичность, в то время как Группа действий (AG) и другие новые группы начали представлять различные региональные и этнические интересы.
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 15:23, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• Такие лидеры, как Обафеми Аволово , Ахмаду Белло и Азикиве, сыграли заметную роль в отстаивании самоуправления. Источник поддерживает части заявления, но опускает конкретное упоминание «самоуправления». Вместо этого он упоминает, что эти лидеры «начали организовываться, чтобы оказывать давление на колониальное правительство для большего представительства нигерийцев в их собственном управлении и для возможного прекращения колониального правления в Нигерии». Это указывает на движение к националистическим целям и независимости, а не на конкретный термин «самоуправление». Предложение , такие лидеры, как Обафеми Аволово , Абубакар Тафава Балева и Азикиве, возглавляли националистические движения, выступая за большее представительство нигерийцев в управлении и добиваясь возможной независимости от британского правления.
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 15:23, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• После продолжительных переговоров британцы согласились на независимость Нигерии. → После значительных переговоров и дипломатических усилий британцы согласились предоставить Нигерии независимость. Эта формулировка более точно соответствует источнику, описывая процесс как значительный, не подразумевая никакой прямой причинно-следственной связи, кроме той, что упомянута в Simwa 2020.
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 15:23, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• Несколько конституционных конференций состоялись в Лондоне и Лагосе, где региональные лидеры обсуждали структуры управления для будущей нации. → Движение за независимость Нигерии характеризовалось многочисленными конституционными дискуссиями и конференциями, начиная с 1940-х годов. Региональные лидеры, как с Юга, так и с Севера, участвовали в обсуждениях с британскими официальными лицами структур управления для будущего Нигерии. Эта редакция лучше соответствует содержанию как Симвы, так и Окоро, которые описывают исторический контекст и вклад ключевых националистов в отстаивание самоуправления Нигерии.
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 15:23, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]
• В 1959 году в Нигерии прошли первые всеобщие выборы, на которых NPC получила большинство и сформировала коалиционное правительство с Абубакаром Тафавой Балевой в качестве премьер-министра. Эта коалиция направила Нигерию на путь полной независимости, достигнутой 1 октября 1960 года. → В 1959 году в Нигерии прошли федеральные выборы, на которых NPC получила наибольшее количество мест. Было сформировано коалиционное правительство между NPC и NCNC, с Абубакаром Тафавой Балевой в качестве премьер-министра. Эта коалиция привела к независимости Нигерии 1 октября 1960 года, и Балева обратился к нации в этот исторический день. Первоначальное заявление правильно проверено, но может быть уточнено для большей точности. Источники подчеркивают коалицию NPC-NCNC как необходимый шаг к независимости, а не как установку «Нигерии на путь полной независимости».
  • сделано -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 15:23, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Читая Бобы, герцог Ривии 13:18, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

@ Reading Beans Done. Спасибо! Vanderwaalforces ( talk ) 15:24, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Vanderwaalforces , проверьте ниже. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 16:06, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Независимость в 1960 году

• Официальное провозглашение независимости Нигерии 1 октября 1960 года ознаменовало конец британского колониального правления и установление самоуправления Нигерии. Церемонии в Лагосе включали высокопоставленных лиц со всего мира, которые наблюдали за переходом власти. Утверждение статьи частично проверено. В Falola & Heaton (2008, стр. 156) нет явного упоминания о высокопоставленных лицах со всего мира, посещавших церемонии в Лагосе , но Shuaibu 2023 подтверждает это, поэтому поместите Falola & Heaton в конец «самоуправления», а Shuaibu 2023 — в конец «перехода власти».
  • сделано. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 21:40, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]
• Принцесса Александра Кентская , представлявшая королеву Елизавету II , представила конституционные документы, положившие конец британской власти, завершив многолетние переговоры, инициированные нигерийскими националистическими движениями. Хотя оба источника ( Balewa 2020 и Shuaibu 2023) подтверждают роль принцессы Александры в предоставлении конституционных документов как символа независимости, ни один из них явно не приписывает ее присутствие «завершению многолетних переговоров, инициированных нигерийскими националистическими движениями». Так что давайте опустим это, и теперь у нас будет принцесса Александра Кентская , представлявшая королеву Елизавету II , представившая конституционные документы, положившие конец британской власти.
  • сделано. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 21:40, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]
• Во время церемонии был поднят новый зелено-белый флаг Нигерии , заменивший Юнион Джек, что стало символом нового суверенитета страны. проверено
• По этому случаю были украшены общественные места, а мероприятия включали традиционные танцы, культурные мероприятия и парады, прославляющие этническое многообразие Нигерии . проверено
• В своей речи Абубакар Тафава Балева сосредоточился на темах единства, национального развития и ответственности, выразив надежду на будущее страны как сплоченной и независимой нации. Он признал разнообразное происхождение народа Нигерии и похвалил усилия националистов, которые работали над достижением независимости. → В своей речи в День независимости Абубакар Тафава Балева выразил «радость и гордость» в связи с новым статусом Нигерии как «независимой суверенной нации» и признал «бескорыстный труд» тех, кто внес вклад в прогресс нации. Он описал путь к независимости как «целенаправленно и мирно спланированный с полным и открытым консультированием» и подчеркнул «великую задачу» ответственного представления Нигерии на «мировой арене». Балева также отдал дань уважения различным спонсорам, включая британских чиновников и местных деятелей, поблагодарив их «за вашу преданную службу, которая помогла превратить Нигерию в нацию». Он выразил благодарность королеве Елизавете II и Содружеству , завершив свое выступление заявлением: «Я открываю новую главу в истории Нигерии, Содружества и, по сути, мира».
  • сделано. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 21:40, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]
• После обретения независимости Нигерия присоединилась к Организации Объединенных Наций и Британскому Содружеству , формализовав свое положение в мировых делах. цитируется по Уиверу (1961, стр. 146, 153, 157). На цитируемых страницах Уивера действительно обсуждается вступление Нигерии в Британское Содружество и Организацию Объединенных Наций, а также последствия этого членства. Но они прямо не заявляют, что это членство «формализовало положение [Нигерии] в мировых делах». Вместо этого текст Уивера подробно описывает конкретные выгоды, возможности и проблемы, с которыми Нигерия столкнулась в этих организациях, а также стратегическое положение страны в Содружестве как части неприсоединившегося афро-азиатского блока. Источник подчеркивает экономические и стратегические преимущества для Нигерии, но не суммирует членство как формализацию ее глобального положения. → После обретения независимости Нигерия вступила в Организацию Объединенных Наций и Британское Содружество , получив экономические и стратегические преимущества, а также возможность взаимодействовать с другими странами по вопросам глобального значения.
  • сделано. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 21:40, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]
• Будучи одной из крупнейших африканских стран, получивших независимость в то время, статус Нигерии был заметным среди других новых независимых стран в период деколонизации в Африке. → 1 октября 1960 года Нигерия стала полностью суверенным государством, что ознаменовало важный момент в процессе деколонизации Африки, поскольку одна из самых густонаселенных стран континента обрела независимость. Falola & Heaton (2008, стр. 156) действительно описывает независимость Нигерии и подчеркивает ее значимость. Однако в ней напрямую не упоминается «заметный статус» Нигерии среди других новых независимых стран в Африке. Вместо этого она фокусируется на событиях, приведших к независимости, роли Тафавы Балевы и Ннамди Азикиве, а также на некоторых проблемах, с которыми Нигерия столкнулась в то время, таких как регионализм и этнические разногласия.
  • сделано. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 21:40, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]

Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 16:06, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Готово, спасибо! Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 21:41, 8 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Мы почти у цели. Пожалуйста, смотрите ниже. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 00:52, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Эпоха после обретения независимости

• В годы после обретения независимости Нигерия столкнулась с проблемами в построении стабильных структур управления и решении экономических и социальных проблем. → День независимости в Нигерии служит поводом для размышлений о прогрессе страны, при этом правительственные передачи ежегодно рассматривают достижения, проблемы и будущие устремления. Эта редакция более точно соответствует содержанию Simwa 2020 и Olaniyan 2016, стр. 105, фокусируясь на роли Дня независимости в размышлениях о пути страны, а не на явном описании управления и экономических проблем после обретения независимости.
  • сделано. -- Vanderwaalforces ( обсуждение ) 12:58, 9 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответ ]
• The federal system, adapted from the colonial model, aimed to support regional autonomy but also underscored significant ethnic tensions among major groups, particularly the Hausa, Yoruba, and Igbo, who were competing for political power. The Al Jazeera source does not explicitly mention that Nigeria's federal system was adapted from the colonial model to support regional autonomy. It does discuss Nigeria's three-part division under colonial rule and highlights regional divisions, but it does not directly link these divisions to the goal of supporting autonomy. It also does discuss the ethnic divisions and power struggles among the Hausa-Fulani, Yoruba, and Igbo. It describes how tribalism and ethnic divisions were pronounced at independence, including how ethnic groups vied for political dominance, leading to military intervention and civil conflict. Suggested rephrase is Upon gaining independence, Nigeria's federal structure divided the country into three main regions dominated by the Hausa, Yoruba, and Igbo.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• These divisions contributed to political instability and a series of military coups, beginning with the January 1966 coup and leading to the Nigerian Civil War from 1967 to 1970. → These divisions contributed to political instability and the January 1966 coup which later escalated into the Nigerian Civil War from 1967 to 1970.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Following the civil war, the government focused on national reconstruction. Yakubu Gowon, who assumed power after the January 1966 coup, introduced a three-year national development plan, with initiatives intended to address economic disparities and encourage national unity. His 1970 Independence Day address, shortly after the war's end, emphasized peace and the need for national rebuilding. The statement is only partially verified by the text from Ugo (2017). While the source indeed references Yakubu Gowon's emphasis on national unity, peace, and the need for development, it does not explicitly state a "three-year national development plan" or mention "initiatives to address economic disparities." Furthermore, the source text presents a set of five national objectives in a broader, more aspirational sense rather than concrete initiatives targeting economic disparities. Suggested rephrase, Following the civil war, the government focused on national reconstruction. Yakubu Gowon, who assumed power after the January 1966 coup, introduced a National Development Plan with objectives to foster unity, strengthen the economy, and create equal opportunities for all citizens. In his 1970 Independence Day address, shortly after the war's end, Gowon emphasized peace and the importance of building a "united, strong, and self-reliant nation" as part of Nigeria's future direction.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In the 1970s, Nigeria became increasingly involved in regional affairs, supporting various African independence movements. cited to Tignor (1998, p. 268.) does not verify this statement. But I found a source your might consider using to backup this statement; <ref>{{sfn|Nagar|Paterson|2012|p=8}} "During the 1960s and 1970s, Nigeria took a leading role in supporting black liberation movements in Southern Africa, including the African National Congress (ANC).</ref>. Full citation * {{cite techreport | last=Nagar | first=Dawn | last2=Paterson | first2=Mark | title=The Eagle and the Springbok: Strengthening the Nigeria/South Africa Relationship | year=2012 | jstor=resrep05152.6 | url=http://www.jstor.org/stable/resrep05152.6 | access-date=8 November 2024}}.
  • Thank you, I used {{harvnb}} because it works best. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The country's oil boom brought economic opportunities but also introduced challenges such as corruption and inflation, issues that would persist in the following decades. The Al Jazeera source mentions that while Nigeria's oil wealth increased government revenue and showed potential for prosperity, this was marred by extensive corruption and economic mismanagement, which kept much of the population in poverty. However, the source does not explicitly mention inflation as a consequence of the oil boom, nor does it directly attribute the emergence of economic "opportunities" solely to the oil boom. Suggested rephrase, The country's oil wealth increased government revenues, but widespread corruption and mismanagement kept most Nigerians impoverished, issues that continued in the following decades.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• These challenges contributed to political instability, resulting in additional periods of military rule, including under Ibrahim Babangida, whose administration initiated limited democratic reforms. Olaniyan (2016, p. 104) focuses on the genre of Independence Day broadcasts in Nigeria, analyzing them from a linguistic perspective, specifically through Babangida's speeches, as a genre of political discourse. It does mention Babangida's regime as a significant period for transitioning to democracy in Nigeria, but it does not directly state that his administration "initiated limited democratic reforms" or connect his regime's significance specifically to challenges contributing to political instability and military rule. Suggested rephrase, These challenges contributed to political instability, which continued through various military regimes. Under Ibrahim Babangida, a significant focus was placed on political discourse, as reflected in his Independence Day broadcasts, which symbolized the period’s role in transitioning toward democracy.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Independence Day remains a significant annual event, with leaders often using the occasion to address themes of unity and national development. The day provides an opportunity for reflecting on Nigeria's progress and the ongoing efforts to achieve stability and cohesion. → Independence Day is celebrated annually as a reminder of Nigeria's journey to freedom, marked by events that foster unity and national pride. It is an occasion for Nigerians to reflect on their shared heritage and express hope for the country's future. This revised statement more accurately mirrors the source's emphasis on unity, pride, and celebration without introducing themes not present in the text.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 00:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done, thank you! Vanderwaalforces (talk) 12:58, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let’s move on. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 14:04, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

National celebration events

• Independence Day in Nigeria includes events that highlight the nation's history, unity, and cultural heritage. The statement is only partially verified by the sources. While both sources imply a historical focus, only the parades and ceremonial events in Toromade et al. indirectly relate to unity and national pride. However, neither explicitly mentions "cultural heritage." Suggested rephrase, Independence Day in Nigeria features events that commemorate the nation's history and promote a sense of unity through nationwide celebrations.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The primary celebrations take place in Abuja, with officials, military personnel, and citizens in attendance. Central to the observance is a military parade displaying the capabilities of Nigeria's armed forces, followed by cultural performances that feature traditional dance and music from various ethnic groups, underscoring the country's cultural diversity." cited to Shuaibu 2023. Suggested rephrase to remove Abuja because we don't have that in the source, A central feature of Nigeria's Independence Day celebrations is a military parade with soldiers marching and military bands performing. Additionally, cultural performances featuring traditional dance and music occur across the country.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The ceremonial raising of the Nigerian flag is conducted to represent national sovereignty. Suggested rephrasing, As part of Nigeria's Independence Day celebrations, a ceremonial raising of the Nigerian flag takes place, accompanied by other festivities.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The President of Nigeria also delivers a national address that addresses recent achievements, current issues, and goals for the future. Suggested rephrasing, The President of Nigeria also delivers a national address as part of the Independence Day celebrations.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• This speech, broadcast nationwide, often focuses on themes of unity and development, marking the significance of independence in Nigeria's national identity. Suggested rephrasing, This speech, broadcast nationwide, often reflects on challenges facing the nation, such as economic recession and security concerns, and outlines goals for governance and economic stability.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 14:04, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done, thanks! Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:10, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Local celebrations occur across Nigeria, with communities organising gatherings and events. remove this sentence, we have this already in the first paragraph of this section.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Schools hold activities like essay contests and debates on Nigerian history, aiming to foster awareness among young people. this is currently unverifiable even though it is true. For the sake of verifiability, I suggest rephrasing to In Oyo State, an essay competition was organized for primary and secondary school pupils as part of Independence Day celebrations, encouraging students to engage with current challenges in Nigeria, such as insecurity in the 21st century. and cited to {{sfn|Babalola|2019}}. Full citation * {{cite web | last=Babalola | first=Ademola | title=Independence: Oyo organises essay competition | website=[[The Punch]] | date=26 September 2019| url=https://punchng.com/independence-oyo-organises-essay-competition/ | access-date=10 November 2024}}
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Traditional meals, such as jollof rice and plantains, are commonly shared during these gatherings. verified.
• In Lagos, streets and public spaces are decorated in Nigeria's national colours, and events such as concerts and public festivals draw crowds from different regions. Suggest rephrasing to In Lagos, Independence Day is celebrated with events such as military parades and cultural performances, showcasing Nigeria's heritage and drawing large crowds.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Fireworks displays in several cities are a common way to conclude the day, representing optimism for Nigeria's future. verified.

Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 06:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Reading Beans Done, thanks! Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regional and global celebrations

• The Nigerian diaspora also observes Independence Day, particularly in countries with large Nigerian communities, including the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, and several African nations. Remove "several African nations" here so that we now have The Nigerian diaspora also observes Independence Day, particularly in countries with large Nigerian communities, including the United States, the United Kingdom, and Canada.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In the United Kingdom, an annual parade in London brings together Nigerians dressed in traditional attire, with celebrations that include music, dance, and cultural displays, often concluding at Trafalgar Square. The source text from The Sun Nigeria 2022 describes a rally in London organized by Nigerians in the UK for Nigeria's 62nd Independence Anniversary, with a focus on supporting Peter Obi's presidential campaign. There is mention of a march through central London, including Trafalgar Square, but no details about traditional attire, cultural celebrations, music, or dance. Suggested rephrase, In the United Kingdom, Nigerians gathered in London to mark Nigeria’s 62nd Independence Anniversary with a march through central London, including stops at Trafalgar Square, the Nigerian High Commission, and 10 Downing Street.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In New York City, Independence Day celebrations have occurred annually since 1991, featuring parades and cultural presentations. verified. But suggested rephrase, In New York City, Nigerians have celebrated Independence Day annually since 1991 with a large parade and cultural presentations, including music, food, and dance, making it the largest Nigerian gathering outside of Nigeria. This rephrasing clarifies the event's scope and reflects the cultural aspects more accurately, as described in the source.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In Canada, the Province of Manitoba officially recognises Nigerian Independence Day, hosting yearly events that celebrate Nigerian culture and acknowledge the contributions of Nigerian communities within the province. The statement is partially verified but needs adjustments for complete accuracy. The source confirms that the Province of Manitoba introduced a bill to formally recognize Nigerian Independence Day, but it does not state that Manitoba "officially recognises" it yet (as it's still a proposed bill). Additionally, while the source mentions celebrating Nigerian culture and contributions, there is no indication of established annual events as implied by "yearly events." Suggested rephrase, In Canada, the Province of Manitoba introduced a bill in 2024 to formally recognise Nigerian Independence Day, aiming to celebrate Nigerian culture and acknowledge the contributions of Nigerian communities within the province.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Global recognition and statements

• Nigeria's Independence Day often receives international recognition, with messages released by world leaders on 1 October. U.S. Presidents have traditionally extended congratulations to Nigeria, often highlighting democratic values and cooperative relations between the two nations. In 2023, Joe Biden acknowledged Nigeria's significant role in Africa and affirmed a commitment to ongoing collaboration on mutual priorities, including security, democracy, and economic growth. verified.
• The United Nations has also marked Nigeria's Independence Day, with Secretaries-General issuing statements that recognise Nigeria's contributions to peacekeeping and its influence in regional stability. The statement, as written, is not fully verified by the provided source texts from Weaver (1961). The source discusses Nigeria's role in international relations through its membership in the United Nations and the Commonwealth, and it recognizes Nigeria's potential influence in global affairs alongside other Afro-Asian nations. However, it does not specifically mention the UN marking Nigerian Independence Day or issuing statements by Secretaries-General recognizing Nigeria's contributions to peacekeeping and regional stability. Suggested rephrase, Following independence, Nigeria joined the United Nations and the Commonwealth, participating in international affairs alongside other Afro-Asian nations.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Leaders from the United Kingdom, frequently acknowledging Nigeria's historical ties and membership within the Commonwealth of Nations, have expressed support on this day. remove this statement entirely.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• We can now merge both subsections (Regional and global celebrations, and Global recognition and statements) into a single subsection called Global celebrations and international recognition.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 15:57, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Reading Beans Done, thank you. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 22:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notable speeches and statements

• All contents of this section verified, so this checks out.

1992 C-130 crash

• verified.

Political tensions and social challenges

• Please remove the first paragraph because it isn't directly relate to the Independence Day.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:36, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• On 1 October 2010, Nigeria's 50th Independence anniversary was disrupted by twin bombings at Eagle Square in Abuja, where official celebrations were being held. The attack resulted in casualties and was claimed by the Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta, which cited grievances with government policies in the Niger Delta. The incident highlighted security concerns and affected the tone of the jubilee celebrations, leading to increased security measures at public events in subsequent years. verified, but I suggest you remove "leading to increased security measures at public events in subsequent years" as it is not directly mentioned in the source.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:36, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Economic challenges have also impacted Independence Day messages and public sentiment. During the economic recession of 2016, President Muhammadu Buhari addressed the nation, acknowledging the difficulties facing Nigerians and encouraging resilience. Independence Day speeches have increasingly become platforms for addressing significant economic and social issues, reflecting the challenges facing Nigerians. verified.

This should be all with the source-text integrity. I am happy you've been able work on my suggestions so far. Please ping me when you sort these out. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 04:40, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Reading Beans Done, thank you. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:37, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support — looks good to me. Good work. Best, Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 22:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ibjaja055

• Support with the following reasons:

1. Well-Written:The prose is engaging, clear, and professional. The language is precise, and complex historical developments are explained in an accessible manner. Transitions are smooth, making the narrative easy to follow for readers with varying familiarity with Nigerian history.
2. Comprehensive:The article covers all key aspects of Nigeria’s Independence Day, including its historical context, celebrations, global impact, and associated speeches. It details the colonial era, Nigeria’s path to independence, and ongoing commemorations. Each section provides necessary context, with major facts and events well-integrated, leaving no significant gaps in the narrative.
3. Well-Researched:This is a thoroughly researched article, reflecting a balanced survey of the relevant literature. Claims are verifiable, with reliable sources, such as primary speeches, historical accounts, and news reports. Citations are appropriately used throughout, supporting claims and ensuring accuracy in details about independence and subsequent celebrations.
4. Neutral:The article maintains a neutral tone, presenting information objectively without any evident bias. It gives fair coverage to all perspectives, including government narratives, the significance of independence for Nigerians, and international viewpoints, without favoring any particular stance.
5. Stable:There is no evidence of ongoing edit conflicts or instability within the content. The article appears well-established, with content changes likely limited to routine updates rather than edit wars or major revisions.
6. Copyright Compliance and Plagiarism-Free:The article complies with Wikipedia’s copyright policy. It shows no signs of plagiarism or too-close paraphrasing, and all information is rephrased accurately from sources, ensuring originality and integrity. When I ran it through plagiarism detector, the result was 23.1 percent which is violation unlikely
7. Style Guidelines:
Lead: The article has a concise and informative lead section that effectively introduces the topic and prepares readers for the detailed sections.
Structure: It follows a logical and balanced structure, with section headings that are clear, hierarchical, and easy to navigate.
Citations: Inline citations are consistently formatted, contributing to the article’s credibility. The references are clear, using footnotes and maintaining consistency.
8. Media:The article includes well-chosen images in each heading with appropriate captions which also enhance the reader’s understanding of Nigeria’s Independence Day celebrations. All media appear to have acceptable copyright statuses, in line with Wikipedia’s policies. Three out of the five images used are in the public domain and the other two are listed under CC by SA 2.0 and 3.0.

9. Length:The article remains focused, avoiding unnecessary detail. It effectively uses a summary style to cover events without overwhelming the reader, maintaining a balance that allows depth without excessive elaboration. Ibjaja055 (talk)

Coordinator note

Please note the bit of the FAC instructions starting "Do not use graphics or complex templates on FAC nomination pages. Graphics such as Done and Not done slow down the page load time, and complex templates can lead to errors in the FAC archives ..." Thanks Gog the Mild (talk) 17:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Crisco 1492

• Nigeria's Independence Day, often called October First, is a public holiday in Nigeria observed on 1 October each year. - What's the point of repeating Nigeria twice in the same sentence? Overall, I am seeing quite a few repetitions of the word... some reworking of sentences may help.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 14:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Per MOS:BTW, we should link words on their first occurrence. The link to Nigeria doesn't meet this guidelines, and some others may not either.
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:46, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• File:National Pageant 1st October 1960.jpg - We have a caption of our own. I'd crop out the embedded caption
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• File:Jaja-Wachuku, Abubakar Tafawa Balewa and Princess Alexandra of kent on Nigeria s Independence Day October 1, 1960.jpg - We have a caption of our own. I'd crop out the embedded caption
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Abubakar Tafawa Balewa - I'd mention "Prime Minister" or another position to show why his feedback was important
  • nixed. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In Oyo State, an essay competition was organised for primary and secondary school pupils as part of Independence Day celebrations, encouraging students to engage with current challenges in Nigeria, such as insecurity in the 21st century. - Is this a regular occurrence? Do other states not do this?
  • Crisco 1492: Yes, it appears to be a regular occurrence in Oyo: 2019, 2023, 2021, etc.

It also seem to happen in other states but most likely not a regular occurrence-ish. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:24, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm seeing some overlinking in the international celebrations section
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• File:The Prime Minister, Sir Abubakar Tafawa Balewa on Independence Day, October 1, 1960.jpg - - We have a caption of our own. I'd crop out the embedded caption
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 17:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Notable speeches and statements - A lot of these paragraphs are small and could be merged
  • done. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:32, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The attack resulted in casualties - How many?
  • done. Eight people, added to the section. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, quite tight.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:13, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Crisco 1492 Thanks for your comment, I have started addressing them. Please what do you mean by "Abubakar Tafawa Balewa - I'd mention "Prime Minister" or another position"? where should I mention Prime Minister? Vanderwaalforces (talk) 15:19, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On his first mention, the reader doesn't have any context as to why his remarks matter. He is identified later in the article, but not at first mention. Hence I'd use "Prime Minister Abubakar Tafawa Balewa" or something similar at the first mention.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:48, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Crisco 1492 So, the first mention of him was at Leaders like Obafemi Awolowo, Abubakar Tafawa Balewa, and Azikiwe led nationalist movements... the third paragraph of the Colonial era... section, do you think it would be logical to mention that here? Because at this point, he was not prime minister yet, but on the second mention at the fourth paragraph A coalition government was formed between the NPC and NCNC, with Abubakar Tafawa Balewa as Prime Minister the fact was established. Although, in the lead he also appeared there but logically he was still not PM yet in that sentence. What do you think? Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Yeah, nix that. With the extra link (I think he's linked three times in four paragraphs) I had assumed that his first mention was in #Independence in 1960. The overlinking could use work. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Crisco 1492 thank you, I fixed the OLINK with Balewa and some others. --Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:46, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also noting that I have fixed other things except the images which I will have to do in Wikimedia Commons, I am being limited because I am unable to overwrite existing files. I have requested help though. I have now cropped them all. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Thank you. Supporting on prose... not being familiar with Nigeria, I can't speak to comprehensiveness, but this reads really well and gives a good understanding of the subject and its context.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:07, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2009–10 Notts County F.C. season

Nominator(s): Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 14:10, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have you ever wondered what happens when a struggling lower league football club is taken over as part of an elaborate attempt to defraud (among others) the North Korean government? Well, as far fetched as that might sound, you can find out! This article is about Notts County's 2009–10 season, a hugely successful one on the field, but one largely overshadowed by off-field events, as the club found itself unwittingly embroiled in a massive attempted fraud. This was unquestionably the most bizarre season in Notts County's (and maybe any football club's) history, and the story is complex and sometimes scarcely believable, but I hope I've been able to bring it all together in a sensible and understandable way. All comments and feedback gratefully received. Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 14:10, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:43, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - alt text added Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 08:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Placeholder

Putting my name down to do a review of this one -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:56, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Initial comments

• "the club were subject to a high-profile takeover" - although whether to treat a football club as singular or plural is a bit nebulous in British English, I would say that in this case the club is being referred to as a corporate entity and should therefore be singular
• That's all I got on the lead - more to follow! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:35, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Chris, the above is now amended. Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 13:31, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More comments

• "Green "sold" his stake in the club to the Trust for £75,000" - why is "sold" in quote marks? If a transaction occurred in exchange for money, that seems like a pretty straightforward sale to me.....

Quotation marks removed

• "It was relegated from Division Two (now EFL League One) in 2004" - as the name changed in 2004, I think you could avoid the need for brackets if you frame it as "It was relegated to EFL League One in 2004"

Changed

• "as this would not be a sale, no money would need to be paid to the estate of Haydn Green" - I'm unclear why money would ever have needed to be paid to his estate - didn't he sell his shares to the Trust before he died?

I've edited the background section above to clarify that the money would become due to Green's estate in the event of his death.

• That's what I got as far as the end of the "Pre-season events" section - back for more later! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These are now addressed. If there's anything further you need clarifying from these let me know. Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 09:21, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• " the second 2–2 at home to Torquay United, a result which left the team in fifth place" => pedantically, "the team" here could refer to either Notts or Torquay

I've switched to "the Magpies" to make it clear that this refers to Notts.

• "The club's off-field was by now deteriorating rapidly" - think there's a word or words missing after "off-field"

Word added

• "it was reported that Trembling was planning a management buyout of the club,[90] that Eriksson was on the verge of resigning,[91] and Armstrong-Holmes admitte" => "it was reported that Trembling was planning a management buyout of the club,[90] and that Eriksson was on the verge of resigning,[91] and Armstrong-Holmes admitte"

Done

• "it became apparent that the club were subject to a new winding-up petition" - I think "the club was" here per my earlier comment
• Suggest linking "brace" to somewhere appropriate on first usage

Done

• "Due to be played in the midst of Trembling's efforts to find a new buyer for the club, he had reportedly hoped" - don't think this works grammatically. Try "As the match was due to be played in the midst of Trembling's efforts to find a new buyer for the club, he had reportedly hoped"

Done

• "company with reserves of $1.9trillion" - think there should be a non-breaking space between 9 and trillion
• "supposedly worth $2billion" - same here
• Same for all the million amounts in the last section

All done

• "At a later hearing, Jersey authorities ordered he pay £322,212" => "At a later hearing, Jersey authorities ordered that he pay £322,212"
• That's all I got in the rest of the article. Great work!! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:54, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the time to read through Chris, these are all now addressed. Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 19:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:39, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC

Comments to follow. - SchroCat (talk) 19:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "attempts to recover often referenced the events of 2009": "often refer to" would be much better

Changed

• Page ranges in the references should not be "p. 127–8", but "pp. 127–128"

I've gone through and reformatted where necessary.

Sorry, I misread your point on this one. Thanks for going back through it for me.

• "buying the Magpies" -> "buying the club"
• Unbeknownst -> Unbeknown

Changed

• "suggested Brazil international and World Cup winner Roberto Carlos" -> "the Brazil international. This is supposed to be in formal, encyclopaedic English, so the definite article should be used. Journalists and Americans drop it altogether (which is fine for them), but not here

Definite article added

• "Campbell did not play immediately, and Notts were beaten 1–0 at Barnet in their final match of the month". This is a comma splice which appears to be connecting two unconnected events.

I've rewritten the sentence to remove the reference to Campbell.

• "Early in September, the Magpies strengthened" -> "Early in September, Notts County strengthened" (try and use the nickname sparingly, and best not when 'introducing' the club at the start of a new paragraph)

Changed

• "wealth was not real, and defender": this would be better as "wealth was not real; the defender"

Changed

• "Early November brought new revelations about the club's finances when it was revealed that Notts County's": too journalistic. "In early November it was revealed that Notts County's" is more succinct

Changed

• "one often repeated story is of the club being unable to pay even the local milkman": Too journalistic – and who cares about a repeated story: it's supposed to be a coverage of known facts, not repeated stories

I've removed the milkman anecdote.

• "buyout of the club, and that Eriksson was on the verge of resigning, and Armstrong-Holmes admitted" and...and... This needs rewriting
• "Holmes admitted": 'Admit' has overtones of confessing to a crime (see MOS:SAID)

I've split the above into a couple of sentences and replaced 'admit'.

• "The two men "scoured Europe", as the Press Association put it": Not sure why we need peacocky journalistic language here. This can be rewritten in good English without the hyperbole

Rewritten

• "saw the Magpies move" -> "saw Notts County move"

Changed

• "gifted the Magpies": I'm not sure there was a "gift", so formal language would be better

Changed

• "league leaders Rochdale" -> "the league leaders Rochdale"

Definite article added

• "this 3–2, meaning the Magpies" 'and' instead of 'meaning' would be better

Changed

• "by BBC journalist" -> "by the BBC journalist"
• "a decade later, journalist" -> "a decade later, the journalist" – ditto for Levine and Southall in the same sentence

Definite articles added

• "and Trembling would admit to Marshall": see above about "admit", but why "would admit", rather than "admitted".

Changed

At the moment it's a good article, but the prose is a bit flabby and journalistic in places. I'll go over it all again once these points have been addressed. - SchroCat (talk) 05:53, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for the feedback, the above has now been addressed. Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 13:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A final few comments on another readthrough:

• "Former England manager Sven-Göran Eriksson" ->"The former England manager Sven-Göran Eriksson" (twice: once in the lead, once in the body)

Definite articles added

• "the Trust apparently did not ask": I'm never happy to see "apparently" in WP's voice: best if this could be attributed inline

I've reworded this paragraph so there's an in-line attribution to the source.

• "Goodley was quickly tipped off": do you mean "quickly"? Literally this is saying someone told him very fast. "Soon", maybe?

Changed

• "at Notts County's Meadow Lane": slightly confusing unless you what Meadow Lane is. "at Notts County's Meadow Lane ground", or "Meadow Lane stadium" or similar would help

I've added stadium here

• "stuck in mud before crossing the goal line": Needs reframing as it reads like it was temporarily stuck but also crossed the line

I've switched 'before' to 'without'.

• "Early in January, it became apparent that the club was subject to a new winding-up petition issued by HMRC": What was the actual situation at the time, because the weasel phrase "it became apparent" is slightly confusing here. If they were subject to it, then just say "Early in January, the club was subject to a new winding-up petition issued by HMRC", or "the club found out it was subject"

Changed

That's my lot. - SchroCat (talk) 07:41, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, these are now addressed. Eric Idle's Cat (talk) 10:14, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - SchroCat (talk) 10:22, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Donkey Kong

Nominator(s): JOEBRO64 13:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DK, Donkey Kong, DK, Donkey Kong is here (at FAC!). As the franchise that put Nintendo on the map, Donkey Kong's got one of the most bizarre and entertaining histories of any media franchise—did you know, for instance, that the 1981 original began as a Popeye game? Or that Shigeru Miyamoto, widely regarded as the Spielberg of video games, had never designed a video game before he had to create the big ape to save Nintendo from bankruptcy? Or that the franchise got a musical TV adaptation in the late '90s animated entirely through motion capture?

I've spent almost two years working on this article, from February 2023 until now. I think it paints a complete picture of the franchise's history, inner workings, and influence. I hope you enjoy reading the article as much as I enjoyed writing it! JOEBRO64 13:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FM

• Probably won't get to it soon, but marking my spot, because I have to read this! And I sure know the TV series, because it turns out I'm apparently one of the only people who recorded the Danish dub, which is commercially unavailable now... FunkMonk (talk) 13:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• At first glance I'm seeing a bunch of WP:duplinks, which can be highlighted with this script:[15]
  • I believe I've nuked all of 'em JOEBRO64 19:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "and the success of Taito's Space Invaders (1978)" While most readers would know, could add "Taito's video game Space Invaders".
  • I added "arcade game" JOEBRO64 16:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• " The $280 million windfall" I had no idea what this meant, could add "gain" to the term, as in the linked article, so it's easier to deduct.
  • Done JOEBRO64 16:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Four programmers from Ikegami Tsushinki spent three months turning them into a finished game." A bit unclear what "them" refers to, as the preceding sentence is very long.
  • changed to "Miyamoto's design". This was the result of some sentences being shifted around due to me adding more info during the GA review JOEBRO64 16:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "had won a lawsuit years prior" Perhaps more interesting and informative (and less wordy) to just give the date?
  • Done JOEBRO64 16:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Popeye became Mario" Perhaps worth stating in a footnote it was originally "Jumpman"? Here it makes it seem like if he had the Mario identity from the beginning.
  • This is actually a common misconception—he was always known as Mario, as evidenced by the sales brochure. The "Jumpman" name was only used in the instructions. JOEBRO64 16:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Donkey Kong's appearances in the years following Donkey Kong 3 were limited to cameos in unrelated games" Worth mentioning them in a footnote, or even in-text.
  • Unfortunately the sources don't elaborate and I wasn't able to find any that did JOEBRO64 15:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "It begins as a remake of the 1981 game before introducing over 100 puzzle-platforming levels that incorporate elements from Donkey Kong Jr. and Super Mario Bros. 2 (1988)." I think it's worth mentioning that Mario was again the protagonist.
  • Done JOEBRO64 15:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Miyamoto named "Beauty and the Beast" and the 1933 film King Kong as influences" Perhaps clarify "named the fairytale "Beauty and the Beast"", so readers don't assume the film.
  • Done JOEBRO64 16:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "but the sprite was too big to easily maneuver" Perhaps add "the sprite graphic" or similar for clarity, as many readers might not understand what's implied.

• "but was moved to the Wii with support for the peripheral dropped" should that be "when support for the peripheral dropped"?
  • I changed it to "moved to the Wii with no support for the peripheral"—the Wii does support the DK Bongos but for whatever reason Paon decided not to let you use them. JOEBRO64 15:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "as closer in spirit to his work on Banjo-Kazooie than Wise's Country music" Maybe "than to Wise's Country music" for clarity?
  • Done JOEBRO64 15:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "before it shifted to producing and importing anime" What is meant by "importing"?

• "A Donkey Kong cartoon produced by Ruby-Spears aired as part of CBS's hour-long Saturday Supercade programming block in 1983" You give the number of episodes for the other series mentioned, why not for this one?
  • So it's two things. (1) It's not in the sources. (2) A lot of Saturday Supercade is considered lost media because rebroadcasts and rereleases are very rare and much of it was never recorded, I think it's possible that there were more episodes beyond the 13 ones listed at the Saturday Supercade article so that number could be inaccurate. Best to omit it if we don't have the sourcing. JOEBRO64 15:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Eveline Novakovic's lastname was Fischer at the relevant period, would it make more sense to use the name she was credited as back then?
  • Done. (I think the only DK games she worked on under the name Novakovic were the GBA ones.) JOEBRO64 15:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The intro says "The franchise has pioneered or popularized concepts such as in-game storytelling" while the legacy section mentions "The franchise's lack of storytelling". Seems contradictory? I'm also not seeing the former explained in the article body.
  • It's discussed in the legacy section, under effect on the industry. The "lack of storytelling" was referring to the fact the franchise doesn't have a super deep official backstory so I've clarified that. JOEBRO64 15:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Some games without the Country branding" feels a bit convoluted, why not just "outside the Country series"?
  • I just removed it outright as it wasn't necessary. JOEBRO64 15:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• You provide a long list of characters in the Country section under gameplay, perhaps worth mentioning the new player characters in the DK 64 part?

• "Other villains include" Could specify that these are all post-Rare?
  • Done JOEBRO64 15:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "A model of an original Donkey Kong (1981) arcade cabinet" Why use a miniature model? While perhaps not as nice an image, I think it would be more authentic to show an actual machine, like this free image:[16]

• Changes look good, I see four unaddressed points. FunkMonk (talk) 23:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yeah I'll be coming back to those shortly. I've been busy with school and work so my wiki-time's been a bit limited. I should have everything from everyone addressed by the weekend. JOEBRO64 14:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fathoms Below

Hey Joe, it's been a while right? This is a big step up from DKC so I'll save a spot here and I should have some comments up by next week. I also have a FAC open and would really appreciate some quick comments if you're available. Fathoms Below (talk) 15:45, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: working on comments right now! Fathoms Below (talk) 19:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by David Fuchs

I'll have a proper run-through later, but some driveby thoughts for now:

• For the purposes of the lead, how important is it to list all of the supporting characters? I ask partially because the "Rare's games expanded the cast" sentence is trying to pack a lot of information in, is a bit confusing (when you get to the end and we're talking about antagonists instead) and hits you with a ton of names that most people are not necessarily going to know anyhow.
  • How's it now? I chopped it down to only the characters who have articles (e.g. Mario and Pauline). I think "friendly Kongs" should suffice for the supporting characters; I kept mention of the Kremlings since they're the only recurring antagonists. JOEBRO64 19:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In both the lead and body, the text says "to provide a new game that could salvage the unsold Radar Scope cabinets", and I'm wondering if "salvage" makes sense here? They were taking the cabinets and putting a new game into them, correct, versus scrapping them for parts or the like, so "repurpose" maybe makes more sense?
  • Done JOEBRO64 19:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • (edit conflict) I said the same thing here. You have disgraced the Kongs by not staying true. Panini! • 🥪 19:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • lol, since more than one person has now taken issue with it I determined it was best to change JOEBRO64 19:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I get trying to show the variety of games with File:Donkey Kong Country Gameplay Elements.png, but from a practical standpoint, especially given that the core formula is unchanged between them in terms of platforming and with the limitations of non-free content, I think it would make sense to use a single, higher-resolution screenshot.
  • Looking for a decent screenshot right now, will update this when I get one JOEBRO64 19:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 17:16, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vacant0

Nice to see this at FAC. I'll review it during this week. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 15:22, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• What does make Ref 214 (Madison) reliable?
• Other than that, I did not spot any issues with reliability of sources. Some sources are situational but do not have any issues upon checking them. I don't think that I'd have enough time to do a proper source spotcheck though.

The article is quite long, so I'll only take a look at the lede and some parts of the body in detail and draw up my conclusion from it.

• I did not spot any major issues in the lede. It reads to me quite well and covers important aspects of the franchise. Same goes for "1981–1982: Conception and first game" , 1995–2002: Franchise expansion", and "Original series".
• "IGN said that Donkey Kong Country's soundtrack contributed to an increased appreciation for video game music as an art form, and musicians such as Trent Reznor and Donald Glover have praised it." → "IGN said that Donkey Kong Country's soundtrack contributed to an increased appreciation for video game music as an art form; musicians such as Trent Reznor and Donald Glover have praised the soundtrack".
• I did not spot any major issues in the Cultural impact section too.

This looks like a short review, but I really do not have any complaints for the prose I've read. It reads okay to me and some aspects are explained in detail, which is also good especially for readers with little knowledge about the franchise (e.g. in 1995–2002: Franchise expansion). Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 16:04, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from Panini!

I reviewed the GAN and I can't remember if there's a rule withholding me from reviewing and supporting here. But regardless, just wanted to say thank you! For swapping around those gameplay images! Those are definitely some excellent choices, considering that most of the games are dark jungles and finding good ones can be tricky. The second one does have a dark background, but the lack of intractable gameplay elements on top of that besides the barrels, which are the object of discussion, keep the image clear for demonstration. Panini! • 🥪 22:39, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No rule. Reviews from editors already closely familiar with the article are welcome. Disclosing this is helpful mind. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:17, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bowser

Looks good and I enjoyed the read. Here's a few ideas:

• Rare began working on Donkey Kong 64, the first Donkey Kong game to feature 3D gameplay - since Diddy Kong Racing has been introduced, should we call this a "regular" Donkey kong game? Also, should we mention the N64 expansion pack?
  • changed to "first 3D DK platform game". I'm not sure about mentioning the Expansion Pak because I don't think it's really important to the franchise as a whole. It's definitely a neat tidbit about the game itself but this article's more about the grand scheme of things so I don't think it's necessary. JOEBRO64 15:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In April 2023, Rogen said he saw "a lot of opportunity" in the prospect. Eurogamer wrote that Diddy and Dixie's brief cameo in The Super Mario Bros. Movie was obvious setup for a Donkey Kong film. - I think these sentences could be struck.
  • Done JOEBRO64 15:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• though Playtonic declined to label it a spiritual successor. - same
  • Done JOEBRO64 15:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• and journalists have described him as a mascot for both Nintendo and the video game industry. - could we just state this without attibution, as in "he has been described"?
  • Done JOEBRO64 15:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• to which Wise expressed approval. - it's been a while since he was last mentioned, full name?
  • Done JOEBRO64 15:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Nintendo Life described one fansite, DK Vine, as "highly respected". - not sure about this one, feels a bit odd "reviewing" the fandom.
  • I think this should stay. Discussion of fandom is definitely noteworthy cultural impact and DK Vine is the most well-known DK fansite, having broken a few stories that ended up making the mainstream press (notably the canceled Vicarious Visions game, for which they were cited in Eurogamer and VGC) JOEBRO64 15:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also think the storytelling contradiction needs to be straightened out. Once that's done I plan to support this nom. Regards. Draken Bowser (talk) 21:24, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Rjjiii

I'll add notes as I read through this week:

• With regards to Popeye, the very next arcade game that Miyamoto does for Nintendo is the licensed Popeye game. Is there any connection here? For example, was code reused, do the cabinets share hardware, or did Donkey Kong play any role in Nintendo getting the Popeye rights?
  • My understanding of the situation is that Nintendo's inability to secure the Popeye license for what would become Donkey Kong was due to negotiations taking too long. I'm doing some research to see if there's any relation between the two games. JOEBRO64 16:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Miyamoto named the fairy tale" I found the verb/phrasing confusing.
  • Changed to "cited" JOEBRO64 16:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "He placed an emphasis on jumping to avoid obstacles and cross gaps. Miyamoto's ideas were uncommon in contemporary arcade games," This also confuses me. Note "a" reads like this game introduced the mechanic, not that it was uncommon.
• "was told it would be a failure," Does the source say who told them this?
  • No JOEBRO64 16:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Game & Watch version" Would "adaptation" be more accurate than "version" here?
  • yeah, done JOEBRO64 16:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "The victory helped cement Nintendo as a major force in the video game industry." I would cut this per WP:IMPARTIAL. If the sentence is making an objective statement about the court case, it's going over my head with the current wording.
• "Nintendo wanted a game to compete with Sega's Aladdin (1993), which featured graphics by Disney animators,[34][35] when Lincoln learned of Rare's SGI experiments during a trip to Europe." This sentence is hard to parse. Is Lincoln the company's lawyer? "when" seems an odd way to connect these thoughts.
• The Mortal Kombat influence is unclear to me. Were they not already planning to do pre-rendered graphics with the SGI workstations they had bought?
• How common was the usage of these high-end SGI workstations to do video game graphics? Beyond being "groundbreaking" was anyone else in the UK or in the industry doing this?
• "and the designers could not replicate the detail of Country's pre-rendering with real-time graphics" I think this could be slightly expanded so that a less-technical reader could better understand it.
• "to create a new experience" I'd consider removing or rephrasing this. In some sense, any new media is a new experience.
• "but it sold poorly in comparison to Returns" Is this due to the smaller market for Wii U games?
• "was working on a Switch Donkey Kong game" Do we know if they still are?
• That's it for "History", Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Metaphysics

Nominator(s): Phlsph7 (talk) 12:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that examines the basic structure of reality. Some of its main topics include the categories of being, the concepts of possibility and necessity, the nature of spacetime, and the relation between mind and matter. It is relevant to many fields, ranging from other branches of philosophy to the sciences, which often implicitly rely on metaphysical concepts and ideas. Thanks to 750h+ for their GA review and to Patrick Welsh for their peer review! Phlsph7 (talk) 12:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generalissima's comments

Mark me down for a prose review here. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shapeyness

Another amazing article on a core topic in philosophy! Here are some initial comments from my first read through Shapeyness (talk) 15:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Shapeyness, it has been a while. Thanks for reviewing the article! Phlsph7 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• It is sometimes characterized as first philosophy to suggest that it is more fundamental than other forms of philosophical inquiry. It is probably best to attribute this idea, e.g. "Some philosophers, including Aristotle, designate metaphysics as first philosophy to suggest that it is more fundamental than other forms of philosophical inquiry."

  Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Universals are general repeatable entities that characterize particulars, like the color red. Would suggest simplifying or rewording this sentence a bit for the general reader

  Done. It's probably still not ideal but I hope it's better now. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yeah that's better! :) Shapeyness (talk) 20:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• metaphysics was once declared meaningless, and then revived with various criticisms of earlier theories and new approaches to metaphysical inquiry. imo this is a bit vague and awkwardly worded

  Done. The new version is hopefull less awkwardly worded but I'm not sure I can do much about the vagueness without making it longer. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I think that's clear enough now, don't need to make it any longer. Shapeyness (talk) 20:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Phillips 1967 and Haack 1979 are relatively old sources to be using for the sentence about Strawson

  I found a newer source to replace them. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks! Should the MacDonald source be citing page 18 instead? Shapeyness (talk) 20:33, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, page 18 supports our text more directly. I changed it. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Veldsman 2017 and Heidegger 1996 - are these appropriate for the etymology section? On that note, the sources for "Metaphysics got its name by a historical accident" could maybe be better, I would expect them to be from historians/historians of philosophy focusing on Aristotle or etymologists, but maybe I'm missing something?

  I removed Veldsman 2017 and Heidegger 1996 since the paragraph is already well-covered by the remaining sources. I found a source on the history of metaphysics for the part about the historical accident. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Do you have the quote you are using from that source? Shapeyness (talk) 20:34, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  From Hamlyn 2005, p. 590: The term ‘metaphysics’ originated, however, as a title given to some of Aristotle’s works in the catalogue of the edition of them produced by Andronicus of Rhodes in the second half of the first century bc (although it may have come from an earlier library classification). It meant simply the works which followed those on physics in the catalogue. But those works, which were concerned with being, both as such and in respect of various categories of it, especially substance, contain discussions concerning matters which have an obvious continuity with later metaphysical theories. Hence it is reasonable to see Aristotle’s Metaphysics, untidy though it is in the form in which it has come down to us, as the first systematic treatise in metaphysics... Phlsph7 (talk) 09:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Ok I was wondering if it used the term historical accident. It doesn't use that phrase but paints the same picture as the other sources. Potentially could attribute "historical accident" phrasing but I'm not sure if that is necessary or not. Shapeyness (talk) 20:16, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Metaphysicians often regard existence or being as one of the most basic and general concepts Very minor one but Gibson 1998 and Vallicella 2010 are slightly weaker inclusions in the citation here imo

  I removed them since the other references should be sufficient. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:46, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• exist outside space and time This is often used to get the idea across, but really "outside" is an inappropriate concept to use here as it is a spatial concept. The sentence is also quite long, although I didn't have any issue parsing it.

  Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The part on the problem of the many could do with some rewording so it's as clear as possible for the general reader

  Reformulated. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  For instance, it raises the issue of whether a dust particle on a tabletop is part of the table. I think this could still do with some motivating, or the reader might just think "why would anyone think a dust particle is a part of the table?" I've not read the cited sources and whether they use particular examples, but could be worded in terms of atoms maybe, not sure what the best way to do it simply is. Shapeyness (talk) 20:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I used a different example about a coffee cup and a printer. Another common example focuses on the boundary of a cloud and whether a cloud is one or many. We could also use something else if you have a different idea. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• They belong to modal metaphysics, which investigates the metaphysical principles underlying them This is a bit weirdly worded

  Reformulated. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• A possible world is a complete and consistent way of how things could have been This is also a bit weirdly worded

  Reformulated. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I read through the sources and I think the wording I'm finding strange is "a way of how", but I guess this is an attempt to avoid close paraphrasing? I would word it A possible world is a complete and consistent way things could have been. I don't think "way things could have been" being a shared wording with some of the sources should be a problem per WP:LIMITED and the fact that a few different sources all seem to use the same wording as a kind of standard definition. Shapeyness (talk) 21:06, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  A possible world is a complete and consistent way the totality of things could have been might also work. Shapeyness (talk) 21:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I used your second suggestion. I agree that for the short definition itself, WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE shouldn't be a problem. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• McLaughlin 1999 - should this have a chapter/entry?

  Added. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Züricher 2021 - is this a high quality source for metaphysics, it seems to be a psychotherapy handbook

  Replaced. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Imaguire 2018 - this is a bit more specific compared to the other sources in this citation, I think it isn't needed

  Removed. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• For example, the statement "a tomato is red" is true because there exists a red tomato as its truthmaker - as far as I'm aware, truthmakers are generally not identified with ordinary objects like tomatoes, they are usually identified with facts, states of affairs or tropes. Slightly nitpicky but also quite important to the debate I think (I can provide sources if useful).

  I think you got a point that various truthmaker theories focus on facts. I tried to reformulate it in a way that leaves either option open so both thing ontologists and fact ontologists can read it the way they want. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Doesn't this still say that the red tomato is the truthmaker? A truthmaker of a statement is the entity whose existence makes the statement true. For example, the statement "a tomato is red" is true because of the existence of a red tomato as its truthmaker. The problem with the tomato being the truthmaker is that there is a possible world where the tomato is not red, so the tomato doesn't necessitate the truth of the statement. My understanding is that truthmaker theorists will generally say that the truthmaker is "the tomato's being red" or "the redness of the tomato" or "the fact that the tomato is red". Shapeyness (talk) 19:14, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Well, the expression "a red tomato" refers to a particular. The question is probably whether the expression "the existence of a red tomato" can refer to a fact.

  The issue of necessitation most likely also depends on how we interpret the expression. Interpreted in a simple manner, a red tomato can't be blue at the same time, so we would be on the safe side. However, if "a red tomato" means "a tomato that is red in the actual world" then the tomato could have a different color in another world.

  Our source, Tallant 2017 p. 1–2 (chapter 1. An introduction to truth-making), says: that ‘a tomato is red’ is true is due to there existing a red tomato. ... when we say that ‘ “the tomato is red” is true,’ we say this because there exists a red tomato.

  Some alternative formulations:

  • For example, the existence of a red tomato or the tomato's being red acts as a truthmaker for the statement "a tomato is red".

    This version covers several variations.

  • For example, the statement "a tomato is red" is true because of the fact that a tomato is red as its truthmaker.

    This version focuses on facts. It might sound too tautological to some readers.

  I'm also open to other suggestions. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  How about For example, the fact that a tomato exists and that it is red acts as a truthmaker for the statement "a tomato is red"? It mirrors the kind of language the Tallant source uses for other claims (except I explicitly added the word "fact"). I think maybe there isn't a perfect way to reflect the nuance here in a way that will be picked up on by the someone who doesn't know anything about the topic without being overlong. Fwiw I'm drawing from thoughts similar to those in these overviews:

  • Take an alleged contingent truth about a certain rose, say that <The rose is red>. Clearly, the rose itself cannot be the truthmaker for this proposition, since given that it is contingent that it is red, it is possible for the rose to be another colour. But if it is possible for the rose to be another colour, then the rose itself does not necessitate the truth of <The rose is red> and so it is not its truthmaker. (Rodriguez-Pereyra 2006)
  • The existence of such an object is not sufficient to satisfy [the truthmaker principle], however. The existence of something which happens to satisfy ‘x is a rose and x is red’ does not entail the truth of 〈The rose is red〉, since the object in question—a rose, which, as it happens, is red—might not have been red, and so there are possible worlds where that object exists yet 〈The rose is red〉 is false. (Beebee & Dodd 2005)

  —Shapeyness (talk) 19:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Sounds good. I implemented the suggestion and added these two sources. Phlsph7 (talk) 10:47, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ryckman 2005 - why is a book on philosophy of physics being used as a source on phenomenalism

  Replaced. Phlsph7 (talk) 14:20, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The transcendental method is... do we need the sources other than Stern & Cheng 2023?

  I also kept Pihlström 2009 since it has a section explicitly dedicated to the transcendental method but I removed the others. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I don't think we should label Hume a skeptic in Wikipedia's voice when that is a matter of controversy. According to the most recent philpapers survey only 37% of philosophers label Hume a skeptic vs 55% that call him a naturalist (when you filter by those specialising in 17th/18th century philosophy, that goes up to 63%)

  I think it uncontroversial that Hume has a skeptical outlook about metaphysical knowledge but I changed the term to "critical outlook" to avoid problems. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I was thinking more about the discussion in the criticism section but I guess you're right that there's a difference between being skeptical of metaphysics and being a skeptic full stop. Do the sources generally phrase it using the term skepticism? If so then there's probably no problem. I don't have access to all of the sources used for those sentences. Shapeyness (talk) 19:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• New scientific discoveries have also influenced existing and inspired new metaphysical theories I think this should be something like "New scientific discoveries have also influenced existing metaphysical theories and inspired new ones."

  Changed. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• History - do you think there is room for a sentence on Locke to fill out the major empiricist philosophers

  I found a way to mention him in relation to Hume. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• At the turn of the 20th century in analytic philosophy, philosophers such as Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) and G. E. Moore (1873–1958) led a "revolt against idealism" Maybe this can be explained slightly (e.g. why? how?), obviously we don't want lots of detail

  Done. Phlsph7 (talk) 17:30, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hurra-yi Khuttali

Nominator(s): Amir Ghandi (talk) 11:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am renominating this article after it failed the first nomination only because of a lack of engagement from reviewers. This article is about a minor figure in the history of the Ghaznavid dynasty, the dynasty that ruled what is modern day Afghanistan and eastern Iran. Hurra-yi Khuttali was a princess from this dynasty and is regarded as the most politically active woman of her era because she interfered in the succession of her brother. Small details are known about her life, therefore the article itself is quite short. Amir Ghandi (talk) 11:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ThaesOfereode

Hi Amir, it looks like you have Arabic transliterations in the {{Lang}} template. Unless the Arabic script is used, you should use {{translit}} instead. Other issues below:

• "free woman" → 'free woman' per MOS:SINGLE (also want single quotes around "agnomen").
  • Done
• Deitalicize established loan words like "amir", "harem", and "sultan". All of these are common enough terms in English that they don't need italics.
  • Done
• First instance of amir should be delinked to avoid a WP:SEAOFBLUE violation (i.e., before Mas'ud of Ghazna)
  • Done
• Any reason you picked the spelling "Seljuq" over the more common "Seljuk"?
  • Force of habit; changed it to Seljuk

More to follow later. ThaesOfereode (talk) 12:33, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, @ThaesOfereode, would you be interested to continue this review? Amir Ghandi (talk) 14:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Amir. Yes, my personal life has become a little busy, but I should be able to get to this over the coming days. If I don't get to this by Wednesday, ping me again. In the meantime, it looks like your use of the {{lang}} template should be changed to the {{translit}} whenever the Arabic script is not used; as I understand, it will render oddly for screen readers. ThaesOfereode (talk) 16:43, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay; changed the templates. Amir Ghandi (talk) 17:55, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ThaesOfereode Reminder. Amir Ghandi (talk) 13:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, some thoughts:

• You shouldn't replace hamzas/ayins with apostrophes; in names like Masʽud, it looks like you may have thought they should be straightened in accordance with MOS:CQ, but they should not be. Looks like the pipes can be easily removed. In other cases, the templates {{hamza}} and {{ayin}} can be added as appropriate for Arabic names.
• In footnote C, "Khatun" should be placed in a {{translit}} template. I'll let you decide whether it should be Farsi or something else.
• Consider a hatnote that says that the subject should be referred to as "Hurra" not "Hurra-yi" (my first guess) and that "Khuttali" should not be used as a surname. Thomas Aquinas's page has something similar for reference.
• For that matter, the name section should probably tell the reader what "-yi" means. Feminine suffix? Construct state?
• Consider linking theology.
• which Ma'mun conceded to → to which Ma'mun conceded is more natural
• What is a "patriotic" rebellion? Aren't they all from the POV of the rebels? Unless there is compelling reason to keep it, I think the use of "patriotic" here should be removed.
• Mahmud wished to retaliate the killing → Mahmud sought retribution for the killing is less awkward. (And remove the comma after "brother-in-law").
• Link concubines.
• "along with her younger brother"
• What Turkic military commanders? This alliance is not established for the reader. Did the Ghaznavids ally themselves with other Turkic tribes? Which? When? Why? Why did these leaders find themselves scheming (?) in the Ghaznavid court?
• What was Masʽud "preoccupied" with in the west? Where in the west? Baghdad? Rome? Lisbon? Also, probably don't need the parentheses here.
• In footnote E, {{translit}} for "vali ahd" should be Persian rather than Arabic, right? Is "b." short for "bin"? Not sure I understand the parenthetical about the passive voice; there are only two passive sentences. In any case, the parentheses can be dropped; they're not really doing anything.
• Mas'ud lacked political shrewdness, therefore, Hurra is suspected to have influenced [...] → Mas'ud lacked political shrewdness; Hurra is suspected to have influenced [...]
• Any reason footnote G is a footnote? Seems pertinent enough to Hurra's decision-making to include it in the prose. If so, recommend linking oases.
• No need for a comma after conquests in India. Delink India in favor of linking conquests in India with Ghaznavid campaigns in India unless I missed this link being made prior.
• WP:SEAOFBLUE violation with Oghuz Turkoman should be corrected.
• Link caravans as appropriate (perhaps Camel train or Caravan (travellers)?)
• Why did you pipe Seljuk dynasty to Seljuk when dynasty is the very next word?
• Comma after his other aunts.
• Footnote H should be prose.
• Might link India in the sentence following what is currently footnote H, provided you delinked it as per my previous comment.
• Remove comma after 1041.
• realis mood – Okay, so this is more of a category of moods rather than one mood. If you mean the indicative mood, this sentence doesn't make much sense. If you mean another (energetic mood?), it should be specified.
• contemporary historian – Can this just be historian or at least historian of [insert specific title of period studied]? My first thought upon reading was that Amirsoleimani was a contemporary of Hurra.

Good page all around, but there are some issues. Let me know what you think. Tremendously interesting topic. Looking forward to seeing more "women in bronze". ThaesOfereode (talk) 18:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Airship

As always, the following are suggestions, not demands:

• "considered the most prominent woman in Ghaznavid politics" this is not quite what the body says—that an action she took was the most prominent by a woman in Ghaznavid politics.
  • Changed it
• Not sure if "in modern Afghanistan" needs to be in the lead.
  • Deleted
• Two consecutive sentences starting "she was" could be combined.
  • Done
• "a direct cause for" "a direct cause of" sounds more natural.
  • Done
• "who was deemed unfit" this omits that she was one who deemed Muhammad unfit.
  • Deleted
• " Her letter was one of the main reasons for Mas'ud's usurpation of the throne." a bit vague, you could go into more detail about what actually happened.
  • Done
• "the Ghaznavid dynasty, who were a dynasty of Turkic origin" could be simplified to something like "the Ghaznavids, a dynasty of Turkic origin..."
  • Done
• "she sought to learn sciences" this is slightly ungrammatical, probably needing a "the", and also a little unclear—which sciences?
  • This was originally 'other sciences' beside theology, but one reviewer commented that theology is not a science, so I omited the 'other'. I'll add 'other' again since the source itself considers theology a science.
• The map provided is not that useful—a better one would show the Ghaznavid territories, which are referred to more often, instead of intricate details of Khwarazm. File:Ghaznavid Empire (map).jpg seems ideal, if you can find a source that verifies it.
  • Done
• "The latter" is unnecessary—it wouldn't be the person who's died, would it?
  • Replaced with 'He'.
• "patriotist" is not a word, is "patriotic" meant? If yes, I suggest "nationalist" instead as more suitable.
  • I myself prefer 'patriotic' since the source uses it
• "the rebels killed Ma'mun because of his submission" if the whole rebellion broke out because of the submission, I would suggest mentioning that at the start of the sentence, not the end.
  • I reworded the sentence. Thoughts?
• You could mention that Muhammad and his brother were twins.
  • Done
• "inviting him" is a bit oddly phrased, would suggest "encouraging him" or similar.
  • Done
• "Mas'ud marched east to claim the throne, and continued to receive letters from Hurra and his mother regarding the situation in Ghazna. On his arrival in 1030 in Ghazna, Mas'ud captured Muhammad and took the throne." these sentences are quite clunky; try to trim to reduce duplication.
  • Done
• "who had assumed total power in Ghazna after Muhammad's ascension to become the real power behind Muhammad's government" this also essentially says the same thing twice.
  • Amended
• The last paragraph of the "Biography" section needs a thorough copyedit—it really lacks clarity.
  • Done
• Too many commas in the last sentence of "Assessments".
  • Amended

~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:25, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FunkMonk

• Support - I seem to be the only one to have completed a review last time around, so here is my support again. FunkMonk (talk) 16:24, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF

• "Abu al-Hasan died at an uncertain date between 1006 to 1010 and was succeeded by his brother, Ma'mun II." - If I'm reading the source correctly, the source says The date of ʿAlī’s death and the accession of his brother Abu’l-ʿAbbās Maʾmūn II is not definitely known, but must have been ca. 399/1008-9
• "He, with the same intent as his brother, married Hurra in 1015" - source says 1015/1016 which doesn't seem to be quite the same as what's in the article?
  • When I was writing the article, I based the dated on the dates in the Encyclopaedia of the World of Islam article, which uses the Hijri calendar. I had to use an app that converts the dates, that is why the year is specified. For example, in the article the year of Hurra's second marriage is recorded as 406 AH, which in turn could be converted to 1015. I'll correct the date now.
• "a dynasty of Turkic origin whose realm included modern day Afghanistan, eastern Iran and northwestern India" - source specifies Baluchistan, rather than "eastern Iran"; is this really the best way to phrase this, as from what I can tell eastern Iran is more expansive than Baluchistan?
  • From the source: "GHAZNAVIDS, an Islamic dynasty of Turkish slave origin (366-582/977-1186), which in its heyday ruled in the eastern Iranian lands, briefly as far west as Ray and Jebāl; for a while in certain regions north of the Oxus, most notably, in Kᵛārazm; and in Baluchistan." The source doesn't single out Baluchistan, it is mentioned with other regions.

I was going to check Bosworth 1963 as well, but the Internet Archive is acting up again today. I'm a bit concerned about source-text after some issues came up at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sabuktigin/archive1. Hog Farm _Talk 02:32, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edwininlondon

Just a few drive-by comments from a complete lay person:

• would be nice if the opening sentence would mention which modern-day part of the world we're talking about
• ruler of Ghazna --> links to the city of Ghazni, or should it perhaps go to Ghazni Province?
  • I believe I've already linked Ghazna both in the lead and in the body
• She used two nisbas --> perhaps help the reader out a bit by explaining what directly in the textthat is, rather than forcing them to click through or guess that footnote c explains it
  • Done
• recorded by Shabankara'i --> add a description, just like British orientalist Clifford Edmund Bosworth
  • Done
• by Abu'l-Fadl Bayhaqi (d. 1077) a secretary --> comma missing
  • Done
• Amir Mas'ud of Ghazna --> 1) should Amir be linked? is it a title like emir? 2) am I right that this is the newphew? Better to say so, plus when the nephew is introduced I would refer to him by his full name and title
  • 1) to prevent WP:SEAOFBLUE, no, and yes it is the Persianized version of emir. 2) Yes, done
• since the Ma'amunids --> is there a stray "a" here, given that it is the Ma'munid dynasty?
  • Indeed, amended
• However, he was killed --> he is a bit ambiguous (and the subsequent his)
  • Mentioned the name
• Hurra, along with her younger brother, Yusuf ibn Sabuktigin --> is that the name of her brother or a different person? do we need some commas here?
  • Moved the comma to the end
• the Sultan --> the sultan (if I interpret MOS:JOBTITLE correctly)
  • Done
• the Seljuks --> who are they? what happened to the Turkomans?
  • My mistake, the Seljuks are a Turkoman dynasty that lead the other Turkomans. I replaced 'Seljuk tribes' with 'Seljuk dynasty.'
• footnote h: why not put this in the main text?
  • Its a hinderance to the flow of the text
• she is metaphorically covering their shame --> I would add attribution here
  • Done
• as it was Bayhaqi's intentions --> singular or plural? and did Bayyhaqi state this intention or is this an interpretation by Amirsoleimani?
  • Reworded the sentence
• Iranian historian, Shirin Bayani --> no comma here
  • Done
• The Boswell sources in ibliography should be order by time, not randomly
  • Done

That's all I have. Edwininlondon (talk) 09:06, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Borsoka

• It was most likely... Could you attribute this PoV to a scholar (and ideally explain it a bit)?
  • That makes two 'according to's in one paragraph. I don't think that's pleasing to read. Also, could not find anything to expand on that
• ...an honorific laqab 'agnomen'... I think the three non-cotidian terms are unneccessary; furthermore, the term "agnomen" is possibly misleading. Why not "a laqab (honorific)" with links? If you think all three terms are to be mentioned, the last term ("agnomen") should be enclosed in brackets.
  • Done
• ... and not her actual name Is this necessary? If not, delete it. If yes, could you add a link (because for me the laqab is also an "actual" name used in souces)?
  • Deleted
• Do we know what is the origin of her second nisba (Kaliji)? If we do not know it, we should make it clear.
  • No, and wouldn't that be an unsourced edition? None of the sources even mention that the origin of Kaliji is unknown.
• An explanation for khatun?
  • Done
• Could you expand the first section's second paragraph to avoid a one-sentence paragraph? For instance, it could be stated in a separate sentence that the only source contains only sparse references, and we could also be informed that it is reliable or unreliable. Based on section "Assessments and historiography", I understand one of her letters has also been preserved in a manuscript - is it the same source?
• Mention the period of reign of Mas'ud (as it is mentioned in the first sentence of the following section in connection with her father).
  • Done
• ...is a probable candidate Could you attribute this PoV to a scholar (and ideally explain it a bit)?
  • Done for the attribution, sadly can't expand it further
• This marriage would have secured an alliance... Why future-in-the-past?
• Hurra may have been taken hostage by them. Could you attribute this PoV to a scholar (and ideally explain it a bit)? Please also read my comment below.
• Hurra may have been taken hostage by them. Mahmud threatened the rebels with invasion unless they released Hurra. Contradiction? (The first sentence implies that she may have not been taken hostage, but the second sentence says that she had been seized.) Perhaps the two sentences could be rephrased to contain only facts ("Hurra was seized/imprisoned/prevented from returning to her homeland/...).
• ...after Mahmud's death, she was entrusted with the care of his wives... Why not widows?
  • Changed to widows
• ...who was crowned in Ghazna... Could you quote the text from the cited source verifying this statement?
  • Bosworth: "...Muhammad succeeded in Ghazna according to his father's will"
    • His coronation is not verified. I am not sure that Ghaznavids were indeed crowned.
      • Okay I'll delete it then
• ..., which was dependent on the powerful leadership of the sultan Could you quote the text from the cited source verifying this statement?
  • Bosworth: "...Ghaznavid empire was basically dependent on the military leadership and executive talent of its Sultan"
• ...encouraging him to take the throne while she and the other women of the court were confided in the Citadel of Ghazni I do not understand the relevance of the part beginning with "while she...".
  • Deleted
• He also imprisoned Ali b. Il-Arsalan Qarib, the al-hajib al-kabir (commander-in-chief) of the army, who had become the real power behind Muhammad's government. Is this relevant in the article's context? I would delete it.
  • Deleted
• ...Hurra is suspected to have influenced By whom?
• The region of Khorasan housed rich oases, centres of industry and crafts and important trade routes. Therefore it was an integral part of the empire. Therefore?
  • Deleted
• File:Ghaznavid Empire (map).jpg: 1. Explain that Mahmud was her brother in the caption (as you introduce similarly Mas'ud I in the other picture's caption). 2. What is the source of the map?
  • 1) done 2) map is compliant with the Cambridge History of Iran map of the Ghaznavids

Borsoka (talk) 11:59, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • • I added the source to the file. Excellent article, so I support its promotion. Thank you for your work. Borsoka (talk) 07:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Overdrawn at the Memory Bank

Nominator(s): GamerPro64 23:55, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Decided to try getting another movie shown on Mystery Science Theater 3000 to Featured Article status. This time around its Overdrawn at the Memory Bank, a major for public television movie starring the late great Raul Julia. A very bizarre science fiction film that tries its best to be profound but ends up being pretty confusing at times. Still a fun movie to watch and I believe that the article meets FAC criteria. Always looking forward for critiques, however. GamerPro64 23:55, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

• "It premiered on the CBC" - might be worth clarifying that this is a Canadian station. I for one didn't know this and just assumed it was American.
  • I unabbreviated it. GamerPro64 00:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Can you unabbreviate it in the body too......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:24, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have also been looking at a few related articles and think maybe it would be more appropriate to say it was broadcast on CBC Television...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:58, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • Changed it to that. GamerPro64 20:08, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "working for conglomerate Novicorp" => "working for the conglomerate Novicorp"
  • Added. GamerPro64 00:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "assigns him mandatory prophylactic rehabilitation" - is there an appropriate link for "prophylactic"? I don't know what it means......
  • I wikilinked it. Its basically preventative healthcare. GamerPro64 00:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "changing both his and Apollonia's identity" => "changing both his and Apollonia's identities"
  • Changed.
• "It was directed Douglas Williams directed the film" - some mangled wording there
  • Looks like it was left behind during the copyedit. Fixed. GamerPro64 00:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Paul Chaplin voiced his hatred" - is he also a cast member?
  • Cast member and writer for the show. Clarified. GamerPro64 00:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "PBS and its pledge drives were also satirized throughout this episode." - source?
  • That does happen in the episode, more satirizing public access stations and their pledge drives. Don't think I can find a proper source beyond the show so I'll remove it. GamerPro64 00:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "saying the film was ahead of its time and gave praise for the acting" => "saying the film was ahead of its time and giving praise for the acting" -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:44, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changed. GamerPro64 00:07, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Crisco 1492

• Apollonia is assigned to locate him - His mind or body?
  • His mind. Clarified. GamerPro64 23:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I'm seeing a mix of sentence case and title case in the references. Worth reviewing.
  • I don't know what that is. GamerPro64 23:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ok I was told what you meant and to answer that, I was formatting the titles the same way as they are in their respective publications. GamerPro64 23:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • WP:CITESTYLE asks for consistency, which is why I flagged it. I'm not doing the source review, so it doesn't affect my response, but it's worth keeping an eye open.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The fact that it's based on a short story isn't actually cited in the article. It is citable to this book. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:25, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added the book for citation. GamerPro64 23:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, that's it. This is a nice and tight article. I'm going to look at the Wikipedia Library to see if there is anything production- or theme-related that could be found, but I doubt there will be much critical analysis of an 80s made-for-television film. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:04, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Not much. Orlando Sentinel called it "One of the worst scripts in drive-in history", giving it "one-half star for usin' government money to make it", but the reviewer also mentions a baboon brain transfer, so...
  • I think I stumbled across this before but didn't use it because it was Joe Bob Briggs reviewing it. And I wasn't sure if he was a source to use. GamerPro64 23:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yeah, that definitely seems to have been in character rather than an actual review. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Also Make the Heavens: Virtual Reality in Science Fiction. Uppsala, Sweden: Section for Sociology of Literature at the Department of Literature, Uppsala University, 2010 - Apparently discusses the short story. Might have some more detail.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• It didn't. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, based on prose, though with the caveat about references that I will leave to whoever does the source review. Looks good! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Voss (Alexander McQueen collection)

Nominator(s): ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's late 2000. You've had it up to here with the jerks at LVMH telling you how to run Givenchy, with the press making snarky comments about your weight, and with the whole bloody madhouse of the fashion industry top to tail. Do you quit this all and become an accountant now? Hell no. You're Alexander McQueen, and you're going to channel your rage into the most beautiful showcase of your entire career: Voss.

Combining incredible showpieces, virtuoso staging, and – the biggest middle finger of all – beautifully wearable designs, Voss was McQueen at the top of his game, all killer no filler. I hope this article does it justice. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• File:Alexander McQueen clamshell dress (51611p).jpg - CC-BY-SA 4.0
• File:McQueen, Musée des beaux-arts - 38 (Voss blouse).jpg - CC-BY-SA 4.0
• File:Alexander McQueen clamshell dress (51590).jpg - CC-BY-SA 4.0
• File:Publicité pour Elizabeth Arden 4 by Adolf de Meyer.jpg, PD, including a PD-US tag
• Two good fair-use images with appropriate rationale
• File:McQueen, Musée des beaux-arts - 15 (cropped to jacket).jpg CC-BY-SA 4.0
• File:Platos Atlantis at Savage Beauty.jpg - CC-BY 2.0
• File:ErinOConnor (cropped).jpg GNU FDL / CC-BY-SA 3.0

Everything looks good to me. :) Support. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 23:03, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC

• "beaches on the coast of Norfolk in London": there's quite a gap between London and the beaches of Norfolk – two whole counties worth England lie between them!
• "; some four thousand from the beach alone." It should only be a grammatical full sentence before or after a semi colon, and this isn't one
  • Ooohhh this was a consequence of bad clause swapping. I've revised the whole sentence now to account for the semicolon issue.
• "three seasons prior": "three seasons before" sounds a bit more natural
  • Done

Down to "Models and styling", more later. – SchroCat (talk) 19:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Finishing off:

• "the classic Johannes Vermeer": just "the Johannes Vermeer" would do ("classic" is a bit too peacock-y in this context)
  • Trimmed
• "The look was inspired by The Birds": as you've already mentioned that one of his collections and the film are called this, you may want to clarify which one here
  • Revised
• "Many analysis commented" -> "Many analyses commented"
  • Changed to academics, which is what I think I meant in the first place
• "becoming-indiscernible": is the hyphen there in the original? I'm not sure what it's doing there
  • Oh, it sure is. The whole article is littered with "becoming-this", "becoming-that". Trying to unpack it any further is, uh, challenging.
    • 'becoming-challenging' or just challenging? ;) SchroCat (talk) 17:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Aaaaa wish I'd thought of that
• "of 'becoming' something else'," Is that ' after "else" doing anything or is it a rogue one?
  • Rogue
• "models acting psychotic" -> "models acting psychotically"
  • Done

That's my lot – I hope they're of help. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 11:18, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. All good from me. - SchroCat (talk) 17:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

I'll pick up the sources once I'm done with the prose. - SchroCat (talk) 19:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Spot checks not done. Please ping if needed and I'll pick up again.
• Formatting is mostly OK. The only quibbles are around the capitalisation in one or two places:
  • FN1: "Ready to Wear" should be lower case as it's not a formal noun
  • FN44: "spring/summer" should be capitalised (you capitalise the seasons elsewhere)
  • FN72: "Fashion" should be lower case
    • Fixed the other two, but "Radical Fashion" is the name of an exhibition so should be capitalised. I've italicised it though.
      • That's fine then - SchroCat (talk) 17:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Coverage seems spot on. I've run some additional searches and can't see anything that has been missed out or that is stronger than the extant refs.

Nothing more to add. – SchroCat (talk) 17:04, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Thank you very much for your comments, Schro, I've made fixes. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 16:36, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David Fuchs

Forthcoming. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 00:31, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your Girl

Nominator(s): Heartfox (talk) 19:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a short article about a somewhat obscure 2005 song by Mariah Carey. I believe it meets the criteria. Pinging Sammi Brie who kindly reviewed it for GA, if they wish to comment. Thanks to all, Heartfox (talk) 19:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

Recusing to review.

• Any reason why "extended play" is not linked?

  Linked

• "It incorporates the same acoustic guitar ..." I don't get this, the same guitar as what?

  Changed to "It incorporates the acoustic guitar from 'A Life with You'"

Ah! Light bulb! You mean "It incorporates the acoustic guitar music as in 'A Life with You'". Er, yes?

• "it is a derivative of the Motown sound." I am not sure that is grammatical. Maybe 'it is a derived from the Motown sound' or similar?

  Changed to "derived from the Motown sound"

• "for her Las Vegas concert residency". Minor point: why "for"? 'at' or 'as part of' may flow better.

  Changed to "at"

A nice little article. But my big gripe is:

• The mentions of belting in both the lead and the article jar. "She uses belting as part of her vocal performance." The sentences just sit there, like factoids in a bullet list, unconnected to the sentences before and after. What is belting? Why does Carey use it? What do the critics think of her using it? How well or badly does Carey use it, or is considered to use it? What, if anything, does it add to the composition? There must be something you can say about it.

  Tried to make more clear by connecting her use of belting with the direct nature of the song. Added a note describing belting.

Gog the Mild (talk) 19:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments, Heartfox (talk) 17:21, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just when I was about to sign off on this I realised that you now arguably have more information on belting in the lead than in the main article. And why put the description of belting into a footnote? This means that a reader can only understand the part of the sentence after the semi colon if they have diverted via the footnote. And even then you haven't explicitly stated the link (as you do in the lead). Gog the Mild (talk) 17:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I got it: "The lyrics are about Carey confidently addressing a prospective lover. She uses belting, a "brassy, full-throated sound" common in musical theatre, to project this in her singing." Heartfox (talk) 17:40, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds great. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:04, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

• "She wrote the track with Marc Shemer, who also produced it with her, as Scram Jones" => She wrote the track with Marc Shemer, who also produced it with her under the name Scram Jones" (current wording could be taken to imply that Scram Jones was a joint pseudonym for both of them)

  Agreed

• I can't actually see a source in the article to confirm that Shemer and Jones are the same person

  I added a newspaper article that says "Marc Shemer, a k a Scram Jones, is a hip-hop artist/rapper and DJ from New Rochelle, N.Y. ..."

• That's it, I think! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @ChrisTheDude: Thanks! Heartfox (talk) 19:03, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:30, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UC

I enjoyed reading this one: in places, it feels a little thin, as if being excessively parsimonious about which pieces of information it passes on to the reader. I particularly felt this in the "Reception" section. More specific nit-picks below:

• In reviews, music critics compared Carey's vocals to their state in the 1990s.: It feels as if we're burying the important thing here: it seems from the body text that they generally thought the comparison was unfavourable, though admittedly there's not a whole lot of data points to go on down there.

  Changed sentence to "Some critics viewed "Your Girl" as one of the best tracks on The Emancipation of Mimi and others criticized her vocals."

• She uses belting as part of her vocal performance, which aligns with her upfront delivery: I admit to complete ignorance on the musical side here, but I have no idea how these two clauses would follow from each other (or, honestly, what "upfront delivery" is).

  Changed to "The lyrics of "Your Girl" are about Carey confidently approaching a potential lover. She uses belting as part of her vocal performance to evoke this sentiment in her singing."

• Critics described the music as containing disco, gospel, jazz, pop, and soul influences: do we need to hedge this behind the critics -- can we just say "the music is influenced by..."?

  Changed to "The music contains"

• Some viewed "Your Girl" as one of the best tracks on The Emancipation of Mimi. : as further up, this seems like a slightly misleading thing to put in the lead as the only real judgement on the song's quality, since it seems that some viewed it as pretty ropey.

  Changed sentence to "Some critics viewed "Your Girl" as one of the best tracks on The Emancipation of Mimi and others criticized her vocals."

• She performed the song live: suggest She has performed..., which implies that she might perform it again, as opposed to the current phrasing, which implies that she won't.

  Changed to "she has performed"

• For its follow-up, The Emancipation of Mimi (2005), she intended to displace overwrought ballads with more simplistic and authentic compositions: what does displace mean here? Are we talking about her changing her own musical style, or pushing others' ballads out of the market? Minor NPOV concerns on "overwrought", which is a loaded (negative) description, and "simplistic", which means "dumbed-down": I think "simple" was intended?

  Changed to "she intended to move on from singing elaborate ballads and instead create more simple and authentic compositions"

  I am inherently pretty wary of these kind of retrospective statements from creative people as to their intentions: they're inherently unverifiable, since we can never know what someone was thinking, and there are clear vested interests at play (with a few noble and notable exceptions, no artist is going to say "I wrote it like that because I thought it would sell more records and make me a whole load of money".) It's wiser, I think, to couch them as reported statements: for example, "in a 2020 interview, Carey said that she had intended...", which is absolutely verifiable. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Prefaced by starting the sentence with "According to her,"

  • A small thing, but advise "simpler": as written, it's unclear whether more modifies simple or compositions. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 18:44, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@UndercoverClassicist: Thanks, done. Heartfox (talk) 19:17, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Retrospectively, Entertainment Weekly writer Michael Slezak attributed its lack of radio airplay to the number of other worthy tracks on The Emancipation of Mimi: perhaps this belongs in the Reception section, but it might be relevant to say which songs were considered more worthy?

  The author doesn't specifically mention any, only: "It says something about the depth of Carey’s latest disc that this lovely little ditty hasn’t yet made it to radio"

• Chris Gardner of The Hollywood Reporter described the song as a deep cut: similar to the bullet point above. Any idea what led him to say this?

  Added to the sentence: "described the song as a deep cut on the album in contrast to the commercially successful "We Belong Together", "Shake It Off", and "Say Somethin'""

• "Your Girl" was later promoted as part of the #MC30 campaign marking three decades of Carey's career: when was this?

  The sentence introduces the date in the next sentence "On January 29, 2021". There is also a link to MC30. I could add another ref to support "2020–2021 #MC30 campaign" but I feel that might be excessive.

  Indeed: it's the next sentence, so doesn't imply that the two happened at the same time. Compare: The United States fought a war of independence against Great Britain. Last week, the King visited the White House. That's a perfectly coherent statement of the same construction, but no reader would take away the implication that the War of Independence happened last week. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Changed to ""Your Girl" was later promoted as part of the #MC30 campaign marking three decades of Carey's career in 2021. On January 29 that year, she issued an extended play..."

• All work occurred at various locations in New York City.: what does work mean in this context?

  Changed to "The production process occurred at various locations in New York City"

• Pat "Pat 'Em Down" Viala: is "Pat 'Em Down" a stage name? Suggest Pat Viala (also known as "Pat 'Em Down") or similar: we wouldn't say Stefani "Lady Gaga" Germanotta.

  He is credited as Pat "Pat 'Em Down" Viala in the liner notes, so that's what I used in the article.

• It incorporates the acoustic guitar from "A Life with You": suggest the acoustic guitar part or similar, to be clear that we mean the musical track, rather than someone playing the same instrument.

  Changed to "acoustic guitar part"

• a party for the group's record label: might be worth making it absolutely clear that this is Adeaze, not Jones and his collaborators. Does this mean "the record label owned by Adeaze" or "the record label to which Adeaze are signed"?

  Changed to "after performing at a party for Dawn Raid Entertainment, the record label to which Adeaze were signed."

• The arranger and guitarist of "A Life with You", Dominique Leauga, alleged he was not credited for his contributions: seems like an odd phrasing -- surely it's easy enough to find out whether he was credited or not? Presumably, he means that he wasn't credited, but felt that he should have been. This might need a bit more explanation.

  Changed to "was not credited for his contributions".

• a "brassy, full-throated sound" common in musical theatre,: per WP:NFCC, quotes should be attributed inline, but I need some convincing that we need this one as a quotation (as opposed to a paraphrase) anyway.

  Paraphrased as "full-throated technique common in musical theatre"

• In The New York Times, Jon Pareles said she uses an impersonal delivery: I think wrote is better than said, as it's in print (but stated would be fine).

  Changed to "stated"

• The song is "innocent, yet still a bit grimy" according to Carey: comma after the quotation?

  Added a comma after quotation

• There's something a bit "off" about the reviews section to me. We have four named reviews -- three are local news, and one is a fairly small British online newspaper. Where are the big hitters? Is the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, with its circulation of 48,000, really a major voice in music criticism?

  I looked at over 90 album reviews of The Emancipation of Mimi, and this is what I could extrapolate. I would definitely prioritize citing major publications, but for whatever reason the song didn't receive much attention from them. The section is still a thorough and representative survey of the literature that exists.

  I'm sure it is, but I think we could still do with giving the reader a bit more, rather than asking us to trust us. Out of all those 90 reviews, we seem to have four points of analysis: 1) her performance was confident; 2) her singing was good, because it was restrained; 3) her singing was bad, because it wasn't restrained; 4) her voice was "weaker", in some undefined way, than it had been before. It's a pretty dire comment on the music reviewing industry if that's the best that all ninety of them could do! Even then, if those views are widely held, we're doing a disservice by saying e.g. "Dave Tianen said...", if we really mean "Dave Tianen and another thirty-three reviewers said...". I would suggest both adding a few more names and fleshing out the points of praise and criticism a little more. It's a rather more complicated and studied piece of work, admittedly, but I think it would be illustrative to look at the relevant section in Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands, a recently promoted song FA: that section does an excellent job of distilling a lot of reading while still giving the reader a sense of the scale of the writing about the song. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I added a sentence "Carey's vocals received largely negative reviews" to flesh out this theme more. Other than that I don't think there's more I can do. I would love for there to be more literature, but there isn't, and so I literally can't add more names to the section.

  I'm a little confused as to how this chimes with I looked at over 90 album reviews of The Emancipation of Mimi. Did eighty-six of them not mention the song at all? There seem to be some useful unused analytical comments in the reviews that have already been used to say that the reviewer thinks the song is particularly good. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:40, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, the vast majority of album reviews did not mention the song. I looked through the reviews again and didn't find anything new to add; if you can specify what are you are referring to that would be helpful. Heartfox (talk) 12:44, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Well, just from the ones in the article, we have:

  • "Carey comes off as confident and utterly carefree" (The Atlanta Constitution), which would seem to merit equal billing with the similar, if less poetic, comment from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

  This is already cited supporting the sentence "Her presence received positive feedback from Marino and Kevin C. Johnson of St. Louis Post-Dispatch, who viewed her as exuding confidence" – is "who both viewed her as exuding confidence" clearer?

  Ah, this is my misreading: I think it would be clearer with a from before "Kevin C. Johnson". As written, it sounds as if Marino is also of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Also agreed that adding "both" is necessary: at the moment, it looks as though who is just Johnson. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:51, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Changed to "Her presence received positive feedback from both Marino and Kevin C. Johnson"

  That doesn't fix the problem, I'm afraid. As above, would advise Her presence received positive feedback from Marino and from Kevin C. Johnson of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, who both viewed her as exuding confidence. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:29, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Added your suggestion

  • The chorus is an exercise in exhilaration that arrives in a high-registered delirium ... It’s a transcendent moment so bright it’s nearly blinding (Pitchfork): this is much better than the trivial amount of commentary we currently have on the chorus (that it's catchy, and sounds a bit like gospel).

  Added the quote.

  • Billboard calls it a "fan favorite" as well as a deep cut, which gives the opposite impression to what we have currently said: as we've framed it, nobody really listens to it.

  I don't really view this as encyclopedic. "Carey's fans like the song a lot" doesn't add much to the article. The link to "deep cut" at wiktionary already implies this with the listed definition: "Any obscure work, a thing likely to be recognized only by a connoisseur" (ie Carey fans).

  It does, though we shouldn't force readers to follow links to understand important points about this article (MOS:NOFORCELINK). More to the point, that's the second, general definition: the first, specifically musical, definition reads An obscure song by a well known musician. As it stands, I think we've misrepresented Gardner's comments: our article implies that it is little known and largely unsuccessful; he says it is widely known and beloved among her fans, of whom there are quite a few. If readers have to navigate to a new page and pick the right definition out of three to get our point, we need to make it more clearly in the first place. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:51, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Gardner doesn't say at all that "it is widely known and beloved among her fans". The quote is "Alongside The Emancipation of Mimi’s biggest hits like “We Belong Together,” “Shake it Off” and “Say Something,” Carey also performed “deep cuts” like the fan favorite “Circles,” a track that she said she wrote with “the late, great Big Jim White,” and “Your Girl.”"

  Added a sentence about fan favorite: "According to Billboard, "Your Girl" is a favorite song among Carey's fans."

  As you say, I'd named the wrong reviewer (it was Rowley in Billboard), but we seem to have ended up in the right place regardless. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:29, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • The rather unkind Independent review goes into much more detail as to the reviewer's problems with the music, particularly lyrical unoriginality and what he sees as lazy production, when talking about the album as a whole.

  I would never cite general comments about an album as a whole as relating to a song when the song is not explicitly mentioned. This leans too much into synthesis and the reviewer's opinion is more relevant for the album article.

  If a reviewer is writing about all of the songs on the album, as here, those comments also apply to the individual songs. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:51, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  They may, but I think it's still undue weight to apply that to every song article when it is in the context of the album and a song article should be focused on reception where the song is actually explicitly mentioned. If a critic said "All of Carey's songs are boring" are we supposed to consider adding that to every song article? No, it's more pertinent in the main biography. It's dangerous and disingenuous to present these broader sentiments as about a specific song. Doing more of this would open a can of worms and introduce so much synthesis. It's just lazy, malpractice to rely on broad statements about an album and apply them to individual songs. We don't know if a critic would say the same thing if they were only reviewing one song. That the album "contains not one nanosecond of original thought, elevating lyric, nor interesting music" does not mean the author singled out this song as such and I don't feel comfortable presenting things like that. This is more relevant for the album article.

  If the review says that the album contains "not one nanosecond" of those things, they are saying that this song contains none of them. This is a fairly minor point overall, but in this case the reviewer has gone out of their way to say that their comments apply every one of the songs in question. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:29, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  As the song is not explicitly mentioned, I do not believe this critique is notable for inclusion in the song article. This would create a precedent that would require going back to all of the album reviews and seeing where stuff like "Carey's voice sounds good on the album" and "Carey's voice sounds bad on the album" comes up. Adding these types of vague responses about the album as a whole to every song article is inappropriate when there is no specific song mentioned and would duplicate the album's critical reception section where it is far more relevant to place. This proposal would give undue weight to reviewers who either loved or hated the album as ones in the middle would be unable to make sweeping statements about every song like The Independent.

  I could only access one review in addition to those, and that's four quite big bit bits of useful additional context from five sources. That doesn't give me much confidence that there's nothing at all to be gained from any of the other eighty-five. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• It's usually spelled a cappella: any reason for the single p?

  The source used the single "p" – I don't really care either way

  The double p is "correct" (it's Italian for "from the chapel", and the Italian for "chapel" is cappella: the single-p spelling is a mistake so common that it's sometimes accepted as a variant, though I don't think any significant publication prefers it. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Changed to double p

• In 2005, Slezak listed "Your Girl" among the 10 best songs of her career. Escobedo Shepherd considered it one of Carey's top 20 tracks in a 2007 Vibe article. Billboard ranked it at number 38 on their 2020 list of Carey's 100 greatest songs: there may not be much you can do about this, but the shifting dates create a comparability problem here: presumably Carey has written a lot of songs in the past 20 years, so being in the top 40 in 2020 might well be more impressive than being in the two 10 in 2005?

  I think moving chronologically flows fine.

  The direction of travel is not the problem; the problem is that there's an important piece of missing context to these numbers (the increasing scale of Carey's discography). However, as I said, that might not be a problem we can fix here. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:47, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As ever, I hope this is helpful, and please do counter-quibble where it's warranted. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:12, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@UndercoverClassicist: Thank you for the helpful comments, I have replied above. Heartfox (talk) 18:22, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aoba47

• I have a comment on this sentence from the lead: (Carey later released two remixes featuring rappers Cam'ron, Juelz Santana, and N.O.R.E as part of a digital extended play.) I think that it would be beneficial to clarify the year that the EP was released as "later" is rather vague.

  Added the year: "as part of a 2021 digital extended play"

• I think more context could be added to the part on Glitter as it seems to gloss over the reasons for Carey leaving Island Def Jam. I can understand the rationale against it as this song is not about Glitter, but I still believe it would be beneficial to have a brief part to provide further context to readers. I was thinking of something along the lines of "Following the critical and commercial disappointments of her album Glitter (2001)". The Pitchfork citation used in this sentence would already support this addition as it describes Glitter as a "commercial flop reviled by critics". Again, just something really brief would help.

  Added this context as suggested

I hope this review is helpful. The article is in great shape, and I just have two nitpick-y comments. I always enjoy reading your articles. I have been listening to Charmbracelet lately so I thought it would be nice to review a Mariah-related article. Best of luck with the FAC! Aoba47 (talk) 23:29, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: Thank you for the review! Heartfox (talk) 02:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything. I support this FAC for promotion. I hope you are having a great weekend so far. Aoba47 (talk) 14:31, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source and image review

I presume that File:Mariah Carey Your Girl Sample.ogg is representative of the song's themes or style or whatever? I notice that the two files don't use the same formatting for their source/origination. Does the ogg file have an ALT text or equivalent? Source formatting seems consistent. "Carey's vocals received largely negative reviews" is currently attached to Abbott 2005, which does not support it as we can't extrapolate from just one review. I wonder which logic is used for applying webarchive, newspapers.com and ProQuest links and their formatting. In the credits and personnel section, do the references support just the bullet point they are attached to, or the entire (sub)section? In the latter case, you should put them in the (sub)header or after each bullet. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:05, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "I presume that File:Mariah Carey Your Girl Sample.ogg is representative of the song's themes or style or whatever?" → Yes this is mentioned in the NFUR: "The section of the music used is discussed in the article in relation to the song (belting vocal style, background vocals, composition, lyrics) which received critical commentary and are mentioned in adjacent text. The sample includes the final words of the chorus which includes the song title "Your Girl" and thus helps readers understand the major theme of the song and connects the title with the lyrics and sound."
• "Does the ogg file have an ALT text or equivalent?" → Alt text for Template:Listen is only when there is an image. I didn't bother adding the lyrics as the sample is only 12 seconds and 2 lines long.
• "Carey's vocals received largely negative reviews" → This is meant as a summary of the following two sentences in which 3 opinions are negative and 1 is positive. Added the sfns to the summary sentence to avoid confusion.
• "I wonder which logic is used for applying webarchive, newspapers.com and ProQuest links and their formatting" → Generally everything that can be found freely online uses the publication's URL while resources only available on databases like Newspapers.com and ProQuest have links to those. All archive URLs that show the full text are given, as archiving a ProQuest page with no text is not helpful.
• "In the credits and personnel section, do the references support just the bullet point they are attached to, or the entire (sub)section" → They support the entire section; moved them to the subheadings.

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Thank you for the review, Heartfox (talk) 01:12, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I guess. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pulgasari

Nominator(s): Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 01:29, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Pulgasari, an absurd 1985 North Korean/Japanese/Chinese monster movie by a kidnapped South Korean filmmaker. It's been 39 years since its production, and the film has become a cult classic worldwide. I have done some major reworking of this page over the last few months, and so far it has since been listed as a good article and received a copyedit. This is my third time nominating an article for FA. Thanks in advance to anyone who offers any feedback. Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 01:29, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Emerging from the void to offer mt support. Looking over the article, I don't see any issues with sources or prose. The only issue would be making sure the image licenses are fully clarified as free to use and (or) have the right attributions to satisfy the WP:NFCC#8. Other than that, well done. Paleface Jack (talk) 16:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• File:Pulgasari_poster_japan.jpg has a dead source link and incomplete FUR

• File:19660529申相玉.jpg has a dead source link and is missing info on first publication

• File:Pulgasary.png has an incomplete FUR. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I've fixed the link and FUR problems on File:Pulgasari_poster_japan.jpg and File:Pulgasary.png but there's not much I can do for File:19660529申相玉.jpg, as that one's source appears inaccessible, not dead. Could remove that and Kim's photo and replace them with a non-free one of Shin and Kim together. Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 18:00, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've just changed File:19660529申相玉.jpg to the Non-free use file File:Shin, Kim Il Sung, and Choi.png from the year of the film's production. I will remove it if its use is deemed unacceptable by anyone. Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 01:51, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See my comment about this file's non-free use at User talk:Eiga-Kevin2#File:Shin, Kim Il Sung, and Choi.png for more details, but I don't think this non-free use can be justified per Wikipedia's non-free content use policy. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:03, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies for changing File:19660529申相玉.jpg to a non-free use file. I believe I have now done the right thing by replacing it with a fairly rare photo of Shin that is in the public domain in the United States and South Korea. Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 07:07, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

seefooddiet

• For romanizing South Korean author names in references, are you following the procedure in WP:KOREANNAME? Some of the romanizations are non-standard; e.g. "Kim, Joo-won" should be "Kim, Ju-won" per KOREANNAME. seefooddiet (talk) 09:01, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't look at KOREANNAME, I just went by consulted my Korean friend about the English spelling of them a few times and went by Google Translate elsewhere. I'll do my best to re-write the names based on WP:NCKOREAN henceforth but might need more assistance. Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 17:56, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can try this automatic converter [17] to get the Revised Romanization spellings. The converter is sometimes incorrect though; if you give it your best effort I can go through later and correct mistakes seefooddiet (talk) 22:54, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also note that Google Translate doesn't produce the romanizations we prefer for Korean; see MOS:KO-ROMAN, second row of the table seefooddiet (talk) 22:55, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies for not replying sooner, I've been quite busy lately. I'll fix any romanizations that are incorrect over the next few days. Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 07:48, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed all of the romanizations now as far as I can tell. Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 00:44, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some possible mistakes in ref romanizations. What would make these not mistakes is if you've seen these specific people using this spelling for their surnames.

• "Moon" -> "Mun" for "Moon, Seok"
• "Noh" -> "No" for "Noh, Sun-dong"
• "Choi" -> "Choe" for "Choi, Yeong-chang"
• For the Kim, Jung-ki ref I'm not seeing the author's name given on the article website. Is his name spelled 김중키 or 김중기? I suspect it's the latter; former is uncommon. If so, it should be "Kim Jung-gi".

Other comment:

• Cast and production section also need to be romanized per WP:KOREANNAME. These spelling systems will unfortunately vary by person, depending on who is North Korean and who is South Korean. North Koreans use McCune–Reischauer, South Koreans Revised Romanization. If you don't know a person's nationality, I think assuming North Korean by default is fine.

seefooddiet (talk) 01:09, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changed "Moon", "Noh", and "Choi" per your suggestions. Kim Jung-ki's name is spelled 金重基 in the source and I've found it hard to directly translate. And for the staff and cast, I've already done some research on most of them and it seems Shin is the only one whose nationality is confirmed to be South Korean (IMDb does claim the film's star, Chang Son-hui, was born in South Korea but I can't find their source for that and a source in this article indicates otherwise). So probably keeping their names as McCune–Reischauer translations would be fine I presume. Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 03:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[18] 基 -> "gi". Unfortunately "重" can be read either 중 (jung) or 동 (dong). I can't find for certain what his name is through googling, but I suspect it is "Jung-gi". Think it's minimally harmful to put that down.

The MR for the cast and production crew are incorrect; I'll fix them. I'll just leave Shin Sang-ok's name as it is. seefooddiet (talk) 21:23, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gave it a pass; you'll need to verify that the new spellings are consistent throughout the article although I gave it a solid try.

Notes:

• I try to avoid putting Korean text glosses in infoboxes; some of the names in there are not in the body of the article and effectively unsourced I think. Once you also put them in the body, you should also move the glosses to the body too.
• It's possible that 유경애 (Yu Kyŏngae)'s surname should be changed. It's reasonably common for the surname 柳 to be written 류 (ryu) in North Korea and 유 (yu) in South Korea due to dialect (similar to how 李 is 리 (ri) in North Korea and 이 (i) in South Korea), although this is not universal practice. Some South Koreans use Ryu and probably vice versa. South Korean sources sometimes South Koreanize these surnames by default, regardless of the personal preference of the person, although they did give "리" consistently. Tl;dr to be extra correct this person's name could be researched; probably a North Korean poster with Korean writing would work.

seefooddiet (talk) 21:57, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These translations seem mostly fine but I think Chŏng Kŏnjo should be changed back to Chong Gon-jo since that's what Satsuma and Western sources call him. Also, maybe we could hide the translations within the article's source (using the <!-- --> thing) and use those translations featured on the English-langauge poster instead? Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 01:22, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for long answer, romanizing Korean is complicated.

• Yes you can change back "Chong Gon-jo" if you have know of wide attestation to that spelling, per step #1 of WP:KOREANNAME.
• For your second use of "translations", do you mean the orig Hangul text? See here for an explanation of why we would want to display Hangul. Also few non-Wikipedians know about invisible comments (<!-- -->), which is why we generally display Korean text in article.
• It's nice that we have an English-language poster, but some complications. Korean romanization is such a mess that a single attestation is often not enough to be confident in what spelling to use. E.g. on that poster it says "Pulgasary" on top; do we use that spelling? Instead of using the ad-hoc romanizations on the poster and risking confusion, it's often safer to default to a systematic romanization. This is what the community has settled on so far.
• The above confusion is why we have the steps laid out in WP:KOREANNAME. Chong Gon-jo meets step #1, I'm not sure if the poster is sufficient evidence of step #2; it may be, but often enough romanizations for people names differ by appearance or even across time so it's hard to be sure.

seefooddiet (talk) 02:34, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alright understood;

• I've changed the co-director's name back to Chong Gon-jo and added sources for this.
• Yes I meant the Hangul text. I think it's fine to have them on display, and was mostly asking because I'm just not a fan of them being in the infobox if the translations are mentioned elsewhere on the article.
• As for the poster text, it coincides with how some older sources give the film the English title of "Pulgasary" so I'm thinking of mentioning that in the note for the film's title. And I don't think the name spellings on the poster apply with step #2 of WP:KOREANNAME after checking.

Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 03:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, sounds good, thank you for working with me! Romanization of Korean is unfortunately complicated. If you ever run into a similar situation with Korean feel free to poke me.

On another note, I think the footnotes subsection and the citations subsection should possibly be merged; they're functionally the same thing. seefooddiet (talk) 20:22, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Much appreciated. Will notify you if I experience any further problems romanizing Korean. And I've considered merging those sections btw, but the GA reviewer and a friend of mine seemed to like how the References section is formated (also it's something pages like Mission: Impossible – Fallout feature). Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 07:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by ZKang123

If I'm correct, if this passes FAC, this might be one of the first North Korea-focussed article (outside of those related to the Korean War) to be given the bronze star. Let me have a look.

Lead:

• Shin and his wife had remained in North Korea since 1978, when their kidnapping was initiated by Kim Jong Il, the country's heir apparent. – This wording is a bit odd, probably especially the use of "remained" as though the couple voluntarily stayed in North Korea. I might reword as: Shin and his wife were in captivity in North Korea since their kidnapping by Kim Jong Il in 1978. or another wording, if you prefer. Also wikilink their abduction.
• Pulgasari was submitted in February 1985 – submitted to who and what for? Did Shin propose the film and submit it to Kim for approval? Also reading later, I would add "The pitch for Pulgasari was submitted..."
• Its Japanese critical reception was positive... – Critical reception in Japan was positive...

I don't as much comments for the plot and cast list.

Production:

• A collection of around 15,000[11][32] to 20,000[7][34] titles was reported to be in Kim's possession. New releases from around the globe were typically added to his collection shortly after opening in theaters. – Kim was reported to have a collection of 15,000 to 20,000 titles of Shin's films. Every new release from around the globe were typically added to his collection shortly after their opening in theaters.
• the film industry there – the country's film industry
• while a larger studio was under construction for the film. – while a larger studio was constructed for the film.
• The Japanese crew developed the Pulgasari suit at Toho from April 28 to late May. Nobuyuki Yasumaru was in charge of modeling it – The Japanese crew developed the Pulgasari suit at Toho from April 28 to late May, with Nobuyuki Yasumaru in charge of modeling it
• loved the reboot so much he sought – loved the reboot so much that he sought
• Shin recalled that Kim had suggested making the monster resemble a cow. – Shin recalled Kim’s suggestion to design the monster resembling a cow.
• For the sentence Pulgasari was ultimately set in Goryeo but..., I think it's a bit too long and could be split such that ...was based on the Forbidden City complex in Beijing. The special effects crew...
• which covered approximately 20,000 pyeong – I think a conversion to SI units might be in order here. Especially for other mentions of pyeong.
• Satsuma said about the destruction of the palace in the Pulgasari suit for the film, he was "impressed that the Chinese government could allow such an ambitious filming, even if it was just a movie". – Satsuma mentioned he was "impressed that the Chinese government could allow such an ambitious filming, even if it was just a movie" when talking about the destruction of the palace in the Pulgasari suit for the film.

Release:

• According to many retrospective sources, the film was, however, banned both in North Korea and overseas in the wake of Shin and Choi escaping North Korean supervisors in Vienna on March 12 and subsequently fleeing to the United States. – According to many retrospective sources, the film was, however, banned both in North Korea and overseas when Shin and Choi escaped their North Korean supervisors in Vienna on March 12 and subsequently fled to the United States.
• On January 21, 1995, Twin released Pulgasari on VHS in Japan – I was initially confused what is "Twin". Might clarify that.
• but were all turned down. – but all were turned down
• due to a cultural exchange agreement for the June 15th North–South Joint Declaration – Shouldn't it be "in the June 15th..." or "as part of the..."
• Johannes Schönherr said contemporaneous publications cited many reasons – "...said... cited..." I might just say Johannes Schönherr cited many reasons or reword in another manner like Johannes Schönherr cited reasonings by contemporaneous publications on its failure in South Korea.

Reception:

• South Korean reviewers also criticized the acting. – can further elaborate in what way from the source?
• Shin rejected interpretations the film may have conveyed a message about North Korea's contemporaneous class conflict. – Shin rejected interpretations about the film's messages on North Korea's contemporaneous class conflict.

That's all I have. Great work for this article so far.--ZKang123 (talk) 09:29, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ZKang123: Thanks! I've just revised everything here based on your suggestions, clarified that Kim's film collection was not just of Shin's movies, and specified what kind of company Twin is. Eiga-Kevin2 (talk) 19:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to support. Additionally, I found another review by a freelance journalist on the film. --ZKang123 (talk) 12:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Bank robbery

Nominator(s): Mujinga (talk) 18:35, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The still unsolved Northern Bank robbery took place in 2004 in Belfast, Northern Ireland. Working with military precision, an armed gang took family members of workers hostage, in order to force them to hand over £26.5 million in cash. The reaction of both the UK and the Irish governments was that the IRA was behind the heist, causing a rupture in the then ongoing peace process. It's now twenty years later and nobody has ever been directly convicted for the crime. Whilst Ted Cunningham does continue to fight his money laundering conviction, the article is stable and I hope ready to be a featured article. Mujinga (talk) 18:35, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt

• "£4.5 million in used notes supplied by other banks" This would include Bank of England notes?

  Moore says these other used notes were "made up of Bank of Ireland, First Trust, Bank of England and other notes". I could be more specific if you think it's necessary? Mujinga (talk) 16:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm wondering why the hundred-pound notes did not cause more of a problem than they did. Do they pass that freely in Northern Ireland? I know the Bank of England only goes up to fifty pounds.

  I don't remember anything in the sources discussing that unfortunately Mujinga (talk) 16:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The arrests were made under the Offences against the State Act.[19] " Does this convey something that I'm missing? Also, Offenses against the State Act is double linked.

  It's in the source and since the act was mentioned earlier, seems worth mentioning (and linking) again, but that's as far as my rationale goes. Mujinga (talk) 16:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "After the Good Friday Agreement of 1998 ..." At least the first half of this paragraph has the feel of background rather than legacy.

  I can see what you mean, if it's OK I'd like to see what other reviewers think Mujinga (talk) 16:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Ripe for the picking: The inside story of the Northern Bank robbery" Should be in title case.

  I've used sentence case in the refs so perhaps it makes more sense to have sentence case here as well. But in that event, then Northern Heist should prob be Northern heist, so I've changed that one Mujinga (talk) 16:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I don't see why the Portuguese bank note crisis of 1925 is a see also. That was nothing like this, that was someone forging the authority for the bank note printers to print new currency and passing the resultant currency. It's not a particularly close case of money laundering to this.

• • Sure, removed Mujinga (talk) 16:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:30, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for the comments, I've replied on everything. Mujinga (talk) 16:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Some images are missing alt text

  good point, fixed Mujinga (talk) 17:08, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• File:NorthernBankNI20.jpg needs a more expansive FUR. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:12, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  could you give me some guidance here on what is required? to me it makes sense to include the image since it improves the article to see an examplar of a note which was withdrawn from circulation as a result of the heist. this was also discussed regarding Wikipedia:Non-free_content_criteria#8 at the GA review with @HJ Mitchell: - who actually I forgot to alert about the FAC! Mujinga (talk) 17:08, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Nikkimaria thanks for the comments, replies made Mujinga (talk) 17:08, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• There's some explanation at Template:Non-free use rationale, but what you're really looking for is a rationale as to why a non-free image is necessary for reader understanding. What does a reader get from actually seeing the note, on top of them just being told a note was withdrawn as a result? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:53, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Great thanks so we are also talking Wikipedia:Non-free_content_criteria#8 and I don't think the image "significantly increases" the reader's comprehension of the article, so I've removed it Mujinga (talk) 11:48, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC

• "Sinn Féin, however, denied": you can lose the 'however': it does nothing useful here

  I'm not tied to it, but I think it's doing something as all the big players are saying the IRA did it but then Sinn Féin denies it Mujinga (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  "Orde ... blamed the Provisional IRA for the robbery. ... Sinn Féin denied the Chief Constable's claim": it says exactly the same thing but without the "however". - SchroCat (talk) 09:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'd like to see what other people think on this. To expand on my rationale: commentators, police officers, the Chief Constable of the PSNI (ie Orde), the British government and the body appointed by the Irish and British governments to oversee the Northern Ireland ceasefires (ie IMC) all immediately blamed the IRA (as did the Irish Taoiseach Bertie Ahern although that's below in the text), but Sinn Féin (ie the political party associated with the IRA) then denied it, so for the "however" is flagging this up. Mujinga (talk) 11:11, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  As I’ve shown above, the text without the ‘however’ does exactly the same thing, but with one less word, which is one of the most over used (and badly used) words on WP). - SchroCat (talk) 21:33, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "On the other hand,": You can lose these four words happily: they do nothing and are unencyclopaedic filler

  good point, removed Mujinga (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "in compost and Cunningham": As this stands, the money was discovered after being found and after the couple were taken for questioning. A semi colon in place of the 'and' would work better.

  rejigged the sentence Mujinga (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The PSNI stated it was a stunt attempting to divert attention from the heist yet it was being investigated": there's a couple of bits awry here, including the word "stunt". Maybe better framed as "The PSNI stated it was an attempt to divert attention from the heist, but was being investigated".

  rephrased and actually "stunt" gets used quite soon after so it's good to remove it here Mujinga (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Hugh Orde described": Just "Orde", as you've already full named him

  done - as with the other names below I've reduced it to one full naming per section Mujinga (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "went in 25 Land Rovers": is this level of detail necessary?

  it conveys that it was a large operation, but rather journalistically, so I've removed it Mujinga (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Ted Cunningham was found guilty": Just 'Cunningham' is necessary
• "Bertie Ahern suspected Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness" -> "Ahern suspected Adams and McGuinness"
• "meeting with Ted Cunningham" -> "meeting with Cunningham"
• "When Gerry Adams denied" -> "When Adams denied"
• "regarding the murder of McGuigan": who is McGuigan and where does this fit in with the robbery in which no-one was killed?

  good spot, I've rejigged this bit and got rid of the Mcguigan sentence Mujinga (talk) 22:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "the House of Commons of the United Kingdom by Ulster Unionist Party (UUP)" -> "the House of Commons by UUP" (the common name for the Commons will suffice, and you've already full-named, linked and provided the abbreviation for UUP a couple of lines above.

  done Mujinga (talk) 22:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Check your linking of sources - I see the Daily telegraph is linked, but many are not, and consistency is key.

  thanks for that, I've unlinked it as I prefer to not wikilink the sources Mujinga (talk) 22:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's my lot. - SchroCat (talk) 14:25, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Cheers for the comments, I've been chipping away at them and now I've answered them all Mujinga (talk) 22:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I'll add my support, but see above for my comment about the unnecessary 'however' which adds nothing to aid understanding or clarity. - SchroCat (talk) 10:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for the support, I've replied on the "however" issue above Mujinga (talk) 11:11, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Claire Redfield

Nominator(s): 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 04:38, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a character from the Resident Evil game and film series; who is known for her red jacket and ponytail. The article recently received copyedits. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 04:38, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You forgot to add a template to the talk page for this. GamerPro64 02:23, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, missed it. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 03:37, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image is appropriately justified. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:11, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shapeyness

Hi Boneless Pizza!, thanks for your work on the article! Here are some comments from a first read-through, mainly to do with style. Shapeyness (talk) 19:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Critics have positively responded to Claire's personality and as a strong female lead character. Should this be "and her role as a strong female lead character"?

Done

• Several journalists also considered Claire significantly less sexualized than other female game characters; she was also cited as an example of a female character who was as competent and skilled as her male counterparts, though her costumes and design in the Resident Evil 2 remake were criticized. Minor one but imo this is a bit long and awkward (and repetitive), optionally might want to reword/restructure the sentence and/or split it up into a few shorter sentences

Done

• Producer Michiteru Okabe believed that this was a good thing since it shows that he consider them to be entirely different personalities rather than simply their gender. Not the best worded, maybe something like would be better: Producer Michiteru Okabe reflected that they had not reduced the two characters to their gender and had instead given them unique personalities, which he felt reflected positively on the direction of the video game industry at the time.

Done

• He also landed on the idea that the players can play multiple roles and stated that "it isn't two against the world, it's one against the world with a helper". Why is this relevant?

Done

• Okabe also hinted that Claire's experience would be more traumatizing than other protagonists' as she is not prepared for such a situation This should mention that it is other protagonists in the Resident Evil franchise. The sentence also doesn't really explain why she isn't prepared for the situation or how this feeds into her design/characterisation.

Done

• They were excited to do so because they really prefer Claire Previous sentence already mentions that they were a fan of the character so I don't think this is needed (it is also less encyclopedic in tone)

Done

• Voice-over and live-action actresses section - maybe adding a picture for the live action actresses would be helpful, what do you think?

  I added only for it to be simple. Done. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• She encounters a young girl named Sherry Birkin in the Raccoon Police Department building, including the mutated scientist William Birkin. The bit after the comma doesn't make sense in this sentence I don't think so needs rewording

This one was removed so the sentence now makes sense, but William Birkin isn't introduced anymore. Would this work? She encounters a young girl named Sherry Birkin in the Raccoon Police Department building, who is being pursued by her father, the mutated scientist William Birkin. Shapeyness (talk) 13:41, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is. Changed 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 21:19, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• and finds the vaccine to let Sherry's scientist mother Annette Birkin cure her daughter before dying from her injuries The her in "before dying from her injuries" is ambiguous

I made some edits to this one, hopefully that is ok and feel free to change if I got anything wrong! One small change that is still needed: this paragraph doesn't mention that Sherry is infected before it says she is cured, which it should. Shapeyness (talk) 13:41, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added it. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 21:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I made some more edits, I haven't played the game so if I get anything wrong please correct me! One thing I'm not sure about, do you know how Arnette is injured? The paragraph says "Annette dies from her injuries" but it doesn't say what injured her. Shapeyness (talk) 00:40, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• director Paul W. S. Anderson and producer Jeremy Bolt decided to bring Claire into the film because they thought her inclusion was important Why did they think it was important?

This still says they thought including her was important, but doesn't say why they thought it was important to include her. Shapeyness (talk) 13:41, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I ended up removing it 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 21:20, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just read the source and realised it is a bit weirdly worded, I agree that removing it makes sense. Don't forget to re-add the first movie name though "Resident Evil: Extinction". Shapeyness (talk) 00:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I already added it. Any thoughts now or conclusion? 😊 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 12:18, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• She plays a major role in Resident Evil: Degeneration (2008), reuniting her with Leon I think this should be something like "in which she is reunited with Leon" or "where she is reunited with Leon".

Done

• IGN editors and Kimberly Wallace of Game Informer both praised with Wallace stating that Claire is her favorite Resident Evil character Both praised what?

Done

• as well as her portrayal in the horror game This is a bit vague

Done

• An essay in Nadine Farghaly's Unraveling Resident Evil also compared Claire to the "typical trope" of "a virgin or tomboy" This might need explaining a bit more - why does the essay say this?
• In general, I think the reception section could do a better job of identifying key themes from different writers and exploring them, atm it feels a bit directionless

  Hi Shapeyness. Thanks for the review. I already dealth with all of your concerns. Some of them have been removed. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for responding to my comments, I have added some more comments to help keep track. Shapeyness (talk) 13:41, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Shapeyness Done. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 21:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Boneless Pizza!, thanks for all the changes you've made and sorry I've been busy for the last few days. I think the main area for improvement remains the reception section. Try to read through sources on Claire and figure out what the main themes are that different critics/journalists have agreed on or discussed, and try to group paragraphs together by theme. Also, can you check that the timeline "Resident Evil games featuring Claire Redfield" is accurate? Some of the games are not mentioned in the article. Thanks, Shapeyness (talk) 14:51, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shapeyness We don't put other RE games that are not canon and are remakes in the timeline per other FAs. I made a few changes from the reception section. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 22:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, maybe it's clearer if I list the ones I'm talking about: Resident Evil: Zombie Busters and Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles are in the timeline but not mentioned anywhere in the article. Shapeyness (talk) 18:34, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Review from Crisco 1492

• She was given a tougher appearance in Resident Evil – Code: Veronica (2000), the reason being her experiences in Resident Evil 2 built her toughness and confidence to handle any situation. - Does the source also mention the interlude between the games where Claire is explicitly undertaking efforts to sabotage Umbrella? If I remember the game correctly, the reason she's captured at the beginning is because she was infiltrating the labs in France.
• James Baker - The RE Wiki claims that baker was a pseudonym, which makes sense. We should be able to find a source for this, somewhere, as otherwise the name may come as a surprise to readers
• clearing up after bioterrorism incidents - Clearing up or cleaning up? It's been a few years since I played this instalment.
• In the end, both of them survive, along with Barry, who arrived to look for them, and a little girl named Natalia Korda. - This is the canon ending... but I seem to recall that there is an alternative ending where Moira fails to overcome her fear of guns, and thus Claire is killed by a creature. (IGN goes into some detail, though I'm not sure if it meets the RS guidelines
• Worth mentioning that the Claire skin was a DLC for DbD?
• "defenseless little girl" - Might be worth contextualizing this as applying only to RE2, as Sherry takes a few levels in badass by the time she hits her twenties (i.e., Resident Evil 6).
• Conversely, Ravi Sinha of GamingBolt considered the character's design to be among the worst in video games, noting that her appearance is "quite odd" and stated that the developers should have kept her original design,[75] while feminist media critic Anita Sarkeesian of Tropes vs. Women in Video Games criticized Claire's alternate costumes as too revealing, particularly the motorsport umbrella costume - Are they writing this in regards to RE2 remake, or in regards to Elza Walker? Definitely worth specifying.
• Are there any sources contrasting Claire with the more sexualized female characters in the series? Ada would be a likely comparison, given they both debuted in the same game, and Ada has been particularly sexualized.
• I've made some edits. Please review. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:28, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Corleck Head

Nominator(s): Ceoil (talk) 00:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A haunting three-faced Celtic stone head dated to the 1st century AD, ie only a few hundred-odd years before written Irish history, yet it seems endlessly ancient and enigmatic. The article has received a number of skilled copyedits (by John especially), became a GA during the summer (after a review by Hog Farm) and recently went through an exhaustive and very rewarding peer review (mainly UndercoverClassicist). Ceoil (talk) 00:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UC

Good to see this here: will review once a few others have been past, as I've already said my piece on the current version at PR. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 08:35, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As promised -- I hope this lot is useful. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:53, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Its use probably continued through the early Christian period into early modern celebrations of the Lughnasadh, a Gaelic pagan harvest festival.: We usually reckon "Early Modern" to be c. 1485 – c. 1688 or so in British history. Do I read rightly that it was used during that time period? Similarly, with "pagan": unless we're saying that a non-Christian community existed at that time, we need to say something more mealy-mouthed like "a harvest festival originally of pre-Christian origin" ("pagan" is something of a dirty word in Late Antique scholarship, since it would have meant nothing to the people whom it described, and lumps together a hugely heterogeneous religious world).
• Historians assume they were hidden during the Early Middle Ages: this doesn't seem to fit with the dates established by the previous comment.

Addressed. Ceoil (talk) 00:19, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Almost a century later, it came to national attention in 1937 : do we need the almost a century later? Likewise, where it is usually on display: is that going to be a surprise to many readers?

  Done. Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• a tricephalic skull cut off before the neck, with three faces.: not sure this is quite right. Tricephalic, strictly, means having three heads, and I don't think there's any indication that this skull would originally have had two siblings. If we simply mean "three-faced", it's tautological, as we say that a bit later.
• a tricephalic skull cut off before the neck ... The head cuts off just below the chin: seems a bit repetitious (this is all within three lines on my screen).

Trimmed. Ceoil (talk) 21:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• They are similar but not identical in form and their enigmatic, complex expressions: consider cutting but not identical, which is implied (outside mathematics) by similar.

  Done. Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• All of the embossed eyes are wide and round yet closely-set and seem to stare at the viewer: this isn't quite grammatical. Easy fix first: the hyphen in closely-set needs to go (MOS:HYPHEN): we only hyphenate compounds when they're used in apposition with a noun (his close-set eyes), and the Wikipedia MoS doesn't hyphenate those with -ly verbs in any case. We also have a bit of a garden-path sentence here. Suggest either bracketing (yet closely set) or, probably better, taking a breath: yet closely-set, and they seem to stare at the viewer.
• Archaeologists disagree on whether it: restate the subject in a new paragraph.

  Done. Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The hole under its base suggests it may have been intended to be placed on top of a pedestal, likely on a tenon (a joint connecting two pieces of material): the "likely" is a bit misleading here, since the two parts are totally linked: if there was no tenon, the hole would have no relevance to whether it would be on top of a pedestal. Suggest something like The hole in its base suggests that it may have been intended to be connected via a tenon joint to the top of a pedestal. I think this would also remove the need for the long gloss on "tenon", which becomes obvious in context.
• Most surviving iconic—that is, representational as opposed to abstract—prehistoric Irish sculptures: assuming that the date up to 100 CE is correct, would that be considered "prehistoric" in Ireland? It certainly wouldn't in Great Britain. Struck per Sawyer777 below, though perhaps it's worth a note to clarify that chronological boundary, as it goes so much later than it does in most other areas of European history? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Other tricephalic and bicephalic idols include the "Lustymore" figure in Caldragh Cemetery: is it still there?
• In addition, the late-19th-century tendency to associate objects with a mythical or a late-19th-century Celtic Revival viewpoint: I'm not totally sure what this means, if I'm honest.

  lol. Removed. Ceoil (talk) 21:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The archaeological evidence indicates that Corleck Hill ... was once known as "the pulse of Ireland": this surely comes from literary evidence rather than archaeological?

  Yes and changed. Ceoil (talk) 21:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "drawn away ... [revealing] a cruciform shaped chamber ... the stones from the mound were used to build a dwelling house nearby, known locally as Corleck Ghost House.": this is quite a long quotation. Any reason not to paraphrase it? If nothing else, we could thereby remove the tautology of cruciform shaped (which should be hyphenated anyway).

Yikes; paraphrased. Ceoil (talk) 21:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• a small contemporary spherical stone head from the nearby townlands of Corravilla, and the Corraghy Heads, also in the National Museum of Ireland.: given that the elements in this list are quite lengthy, a serial comma as indicated would be helpful. As we've already mentioned the Corraghy Heads, perhaps better not to gloss/introduce them here.
• The number 'three' seems: from what I can see on Google Books, the overwhelming form is simply the number three seems.

  Done. Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Triple-"mother-goddesses" : I don't think we want the first hyphen here, and probably not the second either. Hyphenating into quote marks is a bit of an odd look.

  Done. Ceoil (talk) 21:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Genii Cuucullati: This is Latin, so should be in a lang template. Can we translate it too?

  Its in Gaulish derived from Latin (maybe from 'genii loci but that's outside scope. Not sure we have a template for Gauilsh. Ceoil (talk) 21:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Is it not the other way around -- a Latin term that's got a Gaulish one hammered into it? Genii is a pretty distinctively/uniquely Latin word, and the morphology/inflection of Cuucullati (specifically, the -ati, "having-been-verbed" suffix) is definitely Latinate rather than Celtic. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The Hooded Spirits article says "The name CucuIlātus is a derivative of Gaulish cucullos, meaning 'hood' (cf. bardo-cucullus 'bard's hood'), whose etymology remains uncertain. Cucullos is the source of Latin cucullus and Old French cogole (via the Latin feminine form cuculla; cf. modern cagoule). The Old Irish cochaIl ('monk's hood'), Cornish cugol, Breton cougoul, and Welsh kwcwIl are loanwords from Latin."

  I don't want to go too deep into this here, so have simplified the image caption as Early 3rd century AD depiction of the Hooded Spirits. Housesteads Roman Fort, Northumberland, England. Ceoil (talk) 21:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• as with the Boa Island figures: we haven't actually introduced these. Are they the same as (or a superset of) the Lustymore figure mentioned further up?
• From surviving artefacts, it can be assumed that both multi-headed (as with the Boa Island figures and the Corraghy Heads) or multi-faced idols were a common part of their iconography and represented all-knowing and all-seeing gods, symbolising the unity of the past, present and future, or in cosmological terms, the upper-world, the underworld and the middle-world.: this may not be your problem, per se, but there are two claims here, and one is much easier to wear than the other. I can accept "these objects were common" as an inference from "we find loads of these things", but I need a bit more convincing as to how we can tell anything about omniscient gods or a tripartite view of the cosmos.
• The hole at the Corleck Head's base indicates that it was periodically attached to a larger structure: isn't this what we said earlier about a tenon, only now we seem to have promoted it to a certainty from being a conjecture the last time around?

  Clarified. Ceoil (talk) 21:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Three-headed altar thought to depict the god Lugus, found Reims, France in 1852: in Reims, surely? Comma after France per MOS:GEOCOMMA.

  Done. Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Early 3rd century AD depiction of the Genii Cucullati.: needs an italicising lang template. This caption itself needs a full stop at the end, as it has one in the middle. The Boa Island one, however, needs its full stop removed.
• The modern consensus, as articulated by Ross: I don't think we can really hold up a 60-year-old source as "the modern consensus". If someone else has endorsed Ross as still representing the communis opinio, fine, but we need to cite them as well.

  Source from 2013 added, but Ross' view is generally accepted. Ceoil (talk) 21:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Classical Greek and Roman sources mention that Celtic peoples practised headhunting and used the severed heads of their enemies as war trophies: I mean, yes, but they have all sorts of reasons for doing so -- the same sources mention that the Nile once flowed from west to east and that the Ethiopians value iron above gold. I think we need to be a bit more sophisticated here: we can still use this information, but we need to be alert to the sort of evidence we're actually dealing with, and the idea that this might not be a face-value factual observation.
• that is Celts living in Great Britain and Ireland: comma after is.

  Done. Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Medieval Irish legends tell of severed heads coming back to life when they are placed on standing stones or pillars: unless the legends say that all heads do this, I would cut they are to make clear that we mean specific heads.

  Done. Ceoil (talk) 21:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• While the Roman and Insular accounts: what accounts are these? We haven't talked about Roman accounts yet (I assume you mean Caesar/Tacitus here?), and the only Insular narratives we've mentioned are mythical traditions, which are generally too fluid for the label "accounts".

obviously this isn't my FAC, but re assuming that the date up to 100 CE is correct, would that be considered "prehistoric" in Ireland? It certainly wouldn't in Great Britain. - yes, the prehistoric period in Ireland is typically considered to last until the arrival of Christianity, and therefore literacy, in the 4th-5th centuries. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 17:01, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah -- very helpful, thank you. I've struck and amended accordingly. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi UC, excellent points, have them sized up re-sources but will take about a week to address all. The main problem is that there is no parent article for the group (Celtic stone heads), so the article is doing a lot of heavy lifting re context. Your comments are all on point, bear with me. Ceoil (talk) 00:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

sawyer777

i've also already reviewed this at the PR, and said i'd support it at FAC once it got here. i stand by that; the prose & sourcing on this article is excellent (indeed i spot a couple of my textbooks). i've given it another look-over and have nothing new to contribute. i'll keep up with this FAC though in case anything comes up. ... sawyer * he/they * talk 14:23, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

thanks for your help and support over the last few months. Ceoil (talk) 15:21, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

caeciliusinhorto

Some prose nitpicks. I also did some hopefully uncontentious fixes myself in these edits.

• "The three faces may represent an all-knowing, all-seeing god representing the unity of the past, present and future or ancestral mother figures representing strength and fertility": is there a way of rewriting this sentence so as not to say "represent" quite so many times in close proximity?
• "Archaeologists do not believe it was intended as a prominent element of a larger structure ... This suggests that the larger structure may have represented a phallus" seems self-contradictory. Was it or was it not an element of a larger structure? (Or is the point that it was part of a larger structure but not a prominent part, in which case that is not at all clear currently?)
• "on Corleck Hill in townland of Drumeague": I would expect "in the townland" here: is the omission of the article intentional? I know some varieties of English omit the definite article in some contexts where Br.Eng. speakers include it...
• The second paragraph on §Discovery has three mentions of "Barron", but his full name and the link to his article is only given in the following section.
• "only a small number three-faces": I would expect either "three-faced" or "have three faces" here.
• "only around eight known prehistoric Nordic stone heads have been identified": are both "known" and "have been identified" necessary here? It seems to me they are giving the same information and you can cut "known".
• 'Strabo wrote that heads of noble enemies were embalmed in cedar oil and exhibited to strangers"': unmatched quotation mark. Either the opening one is missing or this can be deleted.

Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 14:42, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Caeciliusinhorto, all now addressed. Ceoil (talk) 15:19, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jens

Very interesting.

• Although its origin cannot be known for certain, – I would say "never say never". Wouldn't "although its origin is not known for certain" be sufficient?
• a major religious centre during the late Iron Age that was a major site of celebration – no need to have "major" twice, I think.
• As with any stone artefact, its dating and cultural significance are difficult to establish. – I don't think that's true. As with the first issue, this is an absolute statement and I am sure there are exceptions. "As with many stone artefacts" maybe?
• They all have a broad and flat wedge-shaped nose and a thin, narrow, slit mouth. – "both" instead of "all"?
• One has heavy eyebrows; another has – "the other", as there are only two?
• is extremely difficult – do we loose anything if we remove "extremely" here?
• It may be not clear to readers what precisely "modern period" means; you should at least link it.
• More later. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 00:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Hi Jens, done to here except using "both", as there are three faces. Ceoil (talk) 20:16, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Re: "As with many stone artefacts"....have found a source that goes into deeper discussion on the basis for the dating; will add shortly. Ceoil (talk) 11:30, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The head was found c. 1855 in the townland of Drumeague in County Cavan, Ireland, during the excavation of a large passage grave dated to c. 2500 BC. – This is stated as a non-controversial fact in the lead but has a "probable" in the body.
• a mostly lost and stylistically very different janiform sculpture – but when the human head survives, then "mostly lost" seems like an overstatement?
• as are sculptures of the hooded figues know as – "known"
• and would, in the words of Ross: "tie them to the necks – maybe a , instead of a : flows better here?
• I was wondering about the article structure. It seems that this article starts with the specifics on the head first, and then provides the background information and context later. Usually, we write Wikipedia articles the other way around? I am not sure if this is necessarily bad in this case though. However, I'm a bit concerned that the last section "Head cult" does not seem to have direct relevance to the Corleck Head, and the head is never mentioned there. Ending an article with a section that is not really about the topic makes me wonder if there could be some better structure. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 23:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jens, done until the last point, which I agree with. Have done some restructuring overall as suggested, but would like to weave the Corleck head into the head cult sect as suggested, as sources mention it as a major (Irish) example of the artefact type. Ceoil (talk) 22:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text

• File:JanusandLustymoreFigures_(cropped).jpg: source link is dead. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:10, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have swapped out the image. Ceoil (talk) 20:16, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC

Comments to follow. - SchroCat (talk) 06:31, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "As with many stone artefact" -> "As with many stone artefacts"
• "or ancestral mother figures symbolise strength and fertility": "symbolising"? I don't think the grammar works otherwise
• "today, it is on permanent display": I think "today" is verboten by the MOS, which would prefer "As at 2024" or similar
  • • MOS:ART also discourages "on permanent display", as things rarely are. Johnbod (talk) 17:07, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Has been reworded as "It has been in the collection of the National Museum of Ireland in Dublin since 1937, where it is usually on display". Ceoil (talk) 21:16, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Boa Island. County Fermanagh": that should be a comma, I think
• "Age;[43][44] and was" -> "Age;[43][44] it was" or "Age,[43][44] and was" ('and' should only really go after a semi colon in a list, it replaces the coordinating conjunction when joining two sentences).
• Corleck hill was a major site: Capital 'h' on Hill?
• "Insular Celtic": I think this could do with a quick explanation of what it is, even if in a footnote; it's not a readily understandable term, even from the context. If not, then a piped link to Insular Celts, although this seems to focus only on the British and Irish celts and ignores the European ones
  • • That's exactly the point of "Insular" - their relationship to Continental "Celts" is the subject of much controversy. Insular art is also available for linking. Johnbod (talk) 17:07, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's my lot – an interesting article. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:20, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Schro, all done for the last point as mentioned above. Ceoil (talk) 21:16, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK I still think you need something to explain what is meant in the context of this article by "Insular Celtic": it pops out of nowhere and people unfamiliar with the concept will be completely confused by it. I'll add my support to the nom, but I do think something is needed to clarify this point to, say, a Californian, Cameroonian or Canadian who reads this when it's a TFA and has no idea what is meant by the term. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:17, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have added a note to explain. Ceoil (talk) 17:08, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Johnbod

• Looking good, after the PR. I may wait a while for changes after other comments above. Johnbod (talk) 19:52, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Older nominations

Socompa

Nominator(s): Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a volcano along the border of Argentina and Chile, which has been noted for the giant landslide that removed part of the structure six thousand years ago, the occurrence of fumaroles with mosses and a neighbouring important pass between the two countries. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:56, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, based on my (unofficial) PR. - SchroCat (talk) 15:34, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Graham Beards

I have taken the liberty of making a few edits to the article rather than list suggestions here. I have a problem with this phrase: "The collapse removed about 70° (about 9 kilometres (5.6 mi) of circumference and 7.5 kilometres (4.7 mi) of radius[45]) of Socompa's circumference on its northwestern side". It's the "of radius of..circumference" that is confusing me. Is it just me? Graham Beards (talk) 17:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am trying to say that the landslide took out part of the volcano, like you'd cut off a slice of cake or pizza, equivalent to 70° of the circumference. The 9km refers to the width of the slice and 7.5km to its length. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:33, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you could just say what volume of the volcano was lost as a percentage (on the volcano's northwestern side). Graham Beards (talk) 16:49, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that this can simply be computed. Is there an alternative way to formulate the slice bit? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is circumference is not measured in degrees. Why not just say "a 70° sector"? It's simpler and much easier to understand. Graham Beards (talk) 11:18, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did an edit, is it better now? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:34, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I can live with that. I am happy to add my support now. Graham Beards (talk) 11:45, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF

• Is there nothing that topographical dominance could be linked to in that footnote? Having a redlink for a not well-known geological term is not useful for reader understanding.

  This is User:MAXIMOKAUSCH's addition, and I'm afraid it means no more to me than to you. Unfortunately, I don't even know where to begin when looking for sources on mountaineering terminology. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In my view "with a topographical dominance of 12.08%" should be removed. I don't see how it is helpful to a reader. In fact, given the improbability of the source being considered high quality, I would remove the whole foot note. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removed it in the interim. Regarding andes-specialists, it seems to be the page of Maximo Kausch and his team. They have been referenced by other sources for climbing exploits in the Andes and elsewhere ... does this make 'em a subject matter experts and therefore RS? I don't think this kind of information is usually discussed outside of circles concerned with mountaineering records. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:23, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The occurrence of the large landslide at Mount St. Helens probably aided in the subsequent identification of the Socompa deposit as a landslide remnant" - can I please get the underlying quote from the source for this?

  Here you go. It's an image PDF so I can't quote it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm not a huge fan of "probably" here. This appears to be making guesses about what the authors of the study used in their rationales. They do indicate that the Mount St. Helens incident factored into their conclusions as a comparison, but I don't think the current phrasing really approaches this the best. Hog Farm _Talk 21:48, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This source says "The eruption of Mount St. Helens on 18 May 1980, focused attention on the importance in the evolution of large composite volcanoes of catastrophic collapse events and the rockslide/debris avalanches that result. Since 1980, several previously unknown major debris avalanche deposits have been described " and some examples would that work? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm still not a huge fan of "probably", which is pretty close in my view to a minor form of OR where we're guessing the not directly-stated methodology of a source. I think this can be rephrased to something using these two sources indicating that the knowledge learned from the Mount St. Helens incident contributed to the recognition of such structures as what they were. Hog Farm _Talk 16:21, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Oy. From the same source: "Recognition of the deposits as those of a major debris avalanche took place only in the wake of the collapse of Mount St. Helens in I980 which drew attention to what had hitherto been a poorly understood phenomenon. " that seems to be clearer. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:42, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• It is stated in the lead that it was once thought this was a nuee ardende deposit, but that term is not used at any point in the article body

  Changed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "the name "Negros de Aras" was given to the deposit before it was known that it had been formed by a landslide" - it is unclear what the significance is. I'm assuming Negros de Aras has some meaning that would be unusual for a landslide deposit given the context, but it's unclear what this is signifying.

  That's not clear even from the source. I've rewritten this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Why does the infobox say the easiest approach is "glacier/snow" when it is stated in the article that there are no glaciers on Socompa?

  Some volcanoes here have snow but no glaciers. But since it's not sourceable, I've taken it out. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• What makes Andes Specialists a high-quality RS? This looks like some sort of commercial mountaineering site

  Took it and peaklist out. What's the preferred style for citing Google Maps? 'cause that might be sufficient to cite the geolocation. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm personally of the opinion that simple, obvious, and unambiguous coordinates can be considered to be self-sourcing. Hog Farm _Talk 21:42, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  OK, then I'll leave them in their current (after the edit) state. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:52, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Jorge González (2011). Historia del Montañismo Argentino." and "Federico Reichert (1967). En la cima de las montañas y de la vida." - both of these are incomplete citations. The publishers are needed, as are page numbers

  Took it out entirely, since I can't verify anything there. And asked on WP:RX to see if someone has access. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The body of the article is treating the 5250 BP date as preferable, which the infobox is treating the 5250 BCE date as preferable

  Rewritten in the text. This is one case where a source apparently misread another. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's it from me. Hog Farm _Talk 21:21, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Captions need editing for grammar

  Done, I think? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• File:El_Negrillar.jpg: source link is dead. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:09, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Swapped, but apparently that URL isn't meant to be the source link anymore. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Hurricanehink

Support. I figured I'd review since I have an FAC of my own.

Lead

• Since you link Bolivia in the lead, maybe also link Argentina and Chile? I get why you didn't, since you linked them in the infobox. And speaking of, what about linking Central Volcanic Zone in the lead?

  Hmm, CVZ at this moment is still a redirect to Andean Volcanic Belt which is the preceding link. Granted, it's a redirect that could be expanded to an article in the future. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "about 44 active volcanoes" - I gotta ask, why is "about" used here when 44 isn't a number rounded to a nearest 5 or 10? I'm guessing you mean something like "an estimated 44 active volcanoes", since there's probably a good guess for the number, but it's not precise?

  So, the source says 44 but a few more volcanoes have been discovered since then. Would "more than 40" work better? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I like the stuff about the collapse 7,200 years ago in the lead. I just feel that the second sentence is too long, and that it's out of order. The part about the collapse being "among the largest known with a volume of 19.2 cubic kilometres (4.6 cu mi) " - that's all interesting and good stuff, and I think should be before the Mt. St. Helens bit personally, but either way, the lead could be improved here.

  Rearranged a bit. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Notable are the large toreva blocks which were left behind within the collapse crater." - the "notable are" construction is difficult to understand for non-English readers, or even people who don't have a great sense of English. Could you dumb this down a bit and make the sentence structure a bit easier? "The collapsed crater left behind large toreva blocks", or something.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Socompa is also noteworthy for the high-altitude biotic communities that are bound to fumaroles on the mountain and form well above the regular vegetation in the region." - again, cool stuff, but could you split this into two sentences so you could expand on this a bit? That would make the 3rd paragraph feel a bit more complete.

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Geography and geomorphology

• "due east of Monturaqui" - wish you mentioned that this was an impact crater, that's cool shit

  'fraid that the source refers to the railway station with that name, not the crater which is north of Socompa and much farther away. I've rewritten this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The mountain is considered to be an apu by the local population, and Inca constructions have been reported either from its slopes[10][11] or from its summit." - any Simpsons fan with ADHD is going to click on the link to figure out what an apu is. I'd add the explanation for what it is. Also, the second part "Inca constructions" feels like a completely different thought.

  Well, the Inca constructions exist because of the mountain's status as apu, and there isn't much detail in the sources about these constructions, so putting it elsewhere would leave it pretty stubby. A sourceable definition of "apu" is hard to come by. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "5,600 to 5,800 metres (18,400–19,000 ft)" - is there a reason you use a different construction for metric versus imperial? You could do "to" or the dash for both of them.

  No, changed this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Is there a reason you don't abbreviate to km at a certain point?

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The existence of a lake in the summit area within the scarps at an elevation of 5,300 metres (17,400 ft) has been reported." - is there a lake or not? I'm not sure why the "has been reported" is needed. Also, is that "Laguna Socompa? If so, the parts about the lake should be together.

  No, Laguna Socompa is at the foot of the volcano. "has been reported" because many other sources don't mention its existence. It might be ephemeral or somesuch. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "On the northeastern flank a pumice deposit is clearly visible." - not to someone who's reading the Wikipedia article. Is "clearly visible" the best description?

  Rewritten. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The collapse removed a 70° sector (about 9 kilometres (5.6 mi) of circumference and 7.5 kilometres (4.7 mi) of radius[42]) on Socompa's northwestern side, descended over a vertical distance of about 3,000 metres (9,800 ft) and spread over distances of over 40 kilometres (25 mi),[25] at a modelled speed of c. 100 metres per second (220 mph)." - awesome stuff, but that's a lot for one sentence.

  Split it. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The occurrence of the large landslide at Mount St. Helens probably aided in the subsequent identification of the Socompa deposit as a landslide remnant." - "probably"?

  Already under discussion in Hog's section. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• under the weight of the volcano these layers can deform and "flow" outward from the edifice - why the quotation marks?

  It's a very slow type of flow, akin to glass or rock deforming over time. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "petajoules " - should link to "Joule"

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "A 200-kilometre (120 mi) long lineament known as the Socompa Lineament is associated with the volcano." - I don't know what this means unless I click on "lineament"

  Clarified this a bit. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "In addition, directly north-northwest of Socompa lie three anticlines probably formed under the influence of the mass of both Socompa and Pajonales: The Loma del Inca, Loma Alta and La Flexura." - similar here, no idea what it means unless I click on "anticlines"

  Footnoted. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The fumaroles on Socompa also feature stands of bryophytes such as liverworts and mosses[e] as well as lichens and algae, and animals have been found in the stands.[102][103] These stands" - wait what are "stands"? There's not even a link here.

  In the sense of "grove"; how does one say groups of mosses. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "After the sector collapse 7,200 years ago, activity continued filling the collapse scar. The explosion craters on the summit are the youngest volcanic landforms on Socompa,[6] one dome in the scar has been dated to 5,910 ± 430 years ago.[112] An eruption 7,220 ± 100 years before present produced the El Túnel pyroclastic deposit on the western side of Socompa.[113] The youngest eruption was dated to have occurred 5,250 BCE." - consistency with dating would be nice. The last one "youngest eruption" would've been 7,250 years ago, which would be before the sector collapse by... 50 years? Or potentially the cause of the collapse, right?

  I've recast this whole thing. GVP hasn't updated yet. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "In 2011, the Chilean mining company Escondida Mining was considering building a geothermal power plant on Socompa to supply energy;[125] the Argentine Servicio Geológico Minero agency started exploration work in January 2018 for geothermal power production." - I was curious what's happened since. this says that the work completed in 2020, with an estimate for how much power could be created. That's from 2023.

  Doesn't seem like it amounted to much, going by recent sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All in all a good read. Pretty easy to follow, just a few spots I recommend including a bit of basic words instead of forcing the reader to rely on links. That's the main recurring theme I noticed. Lemme know if you have any questions. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:38, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all of the fixes/replies, happy to support. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Volcanoguy

Introduction

• "Socompa has a large debris avalanche formed 7,200 years ago when most of the northwestern slope collapsed into an extensive deposit." Maybe "Most of the northwestern slope of Socompa collapsed catastrophically 7,200 years ago to form an extensive debris avalanche deposit."?

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The Socompa collapse is among the largest known with a volume of 19.2 cubic kilometres (4.6 cu mi)". I assume you mean one of the largest known collapses on land. Much much larger collapses have taken place on the slopes of submarine volcanoes (see volcanic landslide).

  Aye, but the source apparently doesn't know about the submarine ones. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Then it's a false claim that would be better off removed. Volcanoguy 14:37, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Found a different source that does know the claims, so I added that one. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:42, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Geography and geomorphology

• "Many of these systems are in remote regions and thus are poorly studied" I think "systems" should be clarified here.

  It's only a way to not repeat "volcanoes". Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't see the problem in reusing "volcanoes" here since most people probably won't know what "systems" means. Volcanoguy 19:48, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  OK, changed this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Several dacitic lava flows form the summit area of the volcano, the youngest of which originates in a summit dome." Should "the youngest of which originates in a summit dome" instead be "the youngest of which originates from a summit dome"?

  Done. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "On the southern and eastern side the scarp is 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) long and 200–400 metres (660–1,310 ft) high, while the southern side is about 9 kilometres (5.6 mi) long." This sentence doesn't make much sentence since the southern side is mentioned twice with differing measurements.

  Rewritten. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I have to comment on. Volcanoguy 21:45, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Volcanoguy 19:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

I get the feeling the nomintor in areas doest fully understand the sources; apart from typical not first language issues there seems to be a wood from the trees issue. The statement "not witnessed in historical records" about an event that occurred 7,200 years ago gives pause, as does the fact that the dating is so low in the lead, and in the lead the geography is confusing. And the focus on measurements and all the overcitation is confusing and missing the point. However, I do respect this nominator's work, and hope they can meet these general points. Have been making trivial edits and enjoying this facinating article very much otherwise. Ceoil (talk) 16:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I know that arguing examples isn't normally the right way to go about this, but I don't think that we can assume people know that events 7,200 years ago have no historical records left b/c historical records don't go that far back. And the "activity" - unlike the collapse - has only been dated recently. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:42, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, a collapse and an eruption are definitively not the same thing. I get the point about the (over)use of "collapse", though. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 18:06, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jo Jo, hopeful and confident this will get over the line, and I well know the dept of research that wnt into this. I'll better articulate prose issues in a few days. As I say, the article is fascinating, and am very happy it has been brought to such a standard. Its also very impressive the expertise of the reviews above. I'm just stalling for now. Ceoil (talk) 18:25, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ceoil, please check your spelling before publishing your changes; I've had to correct some of your typos. Volcanoguy 18:54, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thats fair. Will post here only re rewording before my eventual support. Ceoil (talk) 23:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Labyrinth (Taylor Swift song)

Nominator(s): Ippantekina (talk) 07:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a song by Taylor Swift, arguably the biggest pop star right now. She has loads of chart-topping hits, but this one, "Labyrinth", is not one of them. It's a lesser-known entry in her oeuvre, but it knocked me sideways after maybe the 4th or 5th listen and now ranks among my favorite Swift songs. For a song article, I believe this is well-researched, comprehensive, and well-written. I'm open to any and all comments :) Ippantekina (talk) 07:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ceoil

Placeholder. From a scan last night and read through today, the article is very well written and the music and production is well and informativly described. The article is appropriately concise, and the sourcing seems fine. Leaning support. Ceoil (talk) 15:24, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As an update, will be supporting this article as per above once the reception section flows better; it seems very jumbled atm, tying to gather thoughts to articulate concerns (and making light edits). For one thing there are way too many slight quotes (eg "airy") that could be paraphrased. Ceoil (talk) 12:31, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Ceoil, I'm looking for ways to improve the flow of the "Critical reception" section. Ippantekina (talk) 03:44, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ceoil: how does the section read now? Ippantekina (talk) 09:12, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ceoil, do you fancy relooking at Reception? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking better; much tighter. One thing am confused about is most of the first para in the sections seems to be about the production of the music, while the third is about the fx layered on the vocals...yet the quotes in the 3rd para seem to go back to praising the sound again, not the vocals. Ceoil (talk) 20:55, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Media is appropriately justified, but are there any images that could be added? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:06, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm thinking of adding a photo of Swift performing on the Eras Tour, but it might not be directly related to prose.. Ippantekina (talk) 04:48, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Heartfox

• In the infobox one studio is given as Brooklyn and another New York City, but aren't these the same place?

• I'm assuming NYC = Manhattan in this case, but I'd keep the places as they are printed on the liner notes. Ippantekina (talk) 05:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• ""Labyrinth" peaked at number 12 on the Billboard Global 200" → "Billboard Global 200 singles chart" would help clarify for readers unfamiliar with this term

• Done. Ippantekina (talk) 05:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "In the Associated Press" → Maybe "For" or a rewording would work better as Associated Press doesn't feel like something written "in" like a newspaper or magazine

• Done. Ippantekina (talk) 05:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I would try to paraphrase more quotes in the critical reception section

• Did some polishing. Ippantekina (talk) 05:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Best, Heartfox (talk) 02:38, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments, Heartfox. I've replied above, let me know if there are any outstanding concerns :) Ippantekina (talk) 05:23, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. If you are interested, I do have a current FAC open. Heartfox (talk) 19:47, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pagtatag!

Nominator(s): – Relayed (t • c) 18:04, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the second extended play by SB19 released back in 2023, which spawned their hit single, "Gento", which sparked a TikTok trend. I previously worked with the "Gento" article last year and was promoted to FA, and I'm here to get its parent project to get to FA as well. I already attempted to get Pagtatag! promoted last June 2024 but was unsuccessful due to prose issues. I think the article has had substantial improvements since the previous nomination, and I do think this article has the potential of becoming one of the featured content here on Wikipedia.

This is part of my ongoing efforts to improve SB19's coverage here on Wikipedia. Once promoted, it will be the first Filipino album to attain such status (and could be a little cool milestone as SB19 reaches their 6th anniversary). Feel free to leave any constructive criticism, feedback, and suggestions; thank you, reviewers, in advance who will take their time and effort here. – Relayed (t • c) 18:04, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by NØ

Given how much I enjoyed "Gento", I am excited to review this soon!--NØ 09:13, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, MaranoFan! Nice to see you here again! I'm looking forward to your review. – Relayed (t • c) 09:34, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I think you could split "released by Sony Music Philippines on June 9, 2023." into its own sentence as it doesn't work as good as a run-on in the current sentence.

  Split I noticed that that's the convention you're going for in most of your FAs; I did receive a comment last time to make it a run-on, but we'll see how it goes.

• The 2020 debut album's name should be written out in the prose.

  Done

• "Development on Pagtatag! began in 2022" - Should this maybe be "development of"?

  Done

• Apologies if I am missing something, but where is the fact that "Gento" received critical acclaim sourced in the article? Also, the claim that it achieved commercial success seems to not be repeated in the article body and just the chart positions are. Whereas, this type of claim would require a reference to a secondary source.
  • About the “Gento” receiving critical acclaim, that’s supposed to be a summary of how critics liked the catchiness of the song (mentioned in the “Music and lyrics” section), as well as some other comments in the “Critical reception” section. Should I tone down the wording in the lead?
  • Added Regarding the commercial success of the lead single, I have added a source mentioning that the single was a commercial success, hope that’ll suffice.
• "Pagtatag! has been featured on 2023 year-end rankings and nominated for Album of the Year at the 2024 Awit Awards" - Why "has been" instead of "was" when 2023 is over?

  Replaced

• "They were able to release three singles" - "were able to release" seems unnecessary to me, maybe "released"?

  Rephrased

• Other than two Nase (brothers?), I am counting three additional producers on Pagsibol, so the claim that they "worked with several record producers" seems excessive and I would recommend "worked with a few other record producers" or something to that effect.

  Rephrased Yep, they are indeed siblings.

• "and that, in it, they would continue to explore different genres and life experiences" - "in it" could be removed

  Removed

• Two samples for a six-track EP seems to be pushing WP:NFCC#3 a bit. Do you have a preference between these when it comes to conveying the EP's sound, and could the other one be removed?

  "I Want You" sample removed I understand. The thing with Pagtatag! is that one half of the EP sounds sonically different from the other half, so it’s hard to illustrate the EP with only one track sample (at least for me). However, I previously received a comment that "Liham" has a stronger rationale for inclusion in the article than "I Want You", so I removed the latter.

• "Critics were fond of its lyricism" - maybe "praised its lyricism"?

  Rephrased

• "The local press considered the release a significant one" - Admittedly, it is quite a bold claim that the local press thought so, when it only seems to be supported by the Bulatlat review. Which are the other ones?

  Looking back at it, yeah I agree. Toned down the sentence since I couldn't find another source to support that; would that suffice?

• "Pagtatag! was nominated for the Album of the Year at the 2024 Awit Awards" - Don't think "the" is required. Also, if this ceremony has already happened I would suggest more clearly making the sentence about it in the lead past tense too.

  Removed the ceremony has yet to happen, but I will update once that’s done

• Awards and nominations for songs are not included in the awards table of their parent album/EP

  Removed

• Do you think the EP could go into Category:Hip hop EPs, Category:Soul EPs, and Category:Contemporary R&B EPs since these genres are included in the infobox? Also, I believe Contemporary R&B is usually used instead of Rhythm and blues in articles for modern releases like this.

  Added That’s actually a good idea! And links for R&B have been changed to Contemporary R&B.

Those would be all the comments from me. Based on my reading, I find the article to be a strong contender for FA status so it is quite the mystery why the nomination hasn't attracted that much attention, lol. Anyways, I hope you enjoyed the review!--NØ 07:42, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Thanks for the comments, MaranoFan. I will be looking over at them soon. And yeah, unfortunately, that's the case at the moment, but hopefully, this can get more traction sooner, not later. – Relayed (t • c) 08:36, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, MaranoFan! I have finished going over your comments, and I think I have addressed everything on the latest revision (see difference here). I have also responded to some of your points above. Let me know if everything has been sorted to your liking or you have anything else. – Relayed (t • c) 06:57, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - Impeccable work. Hopefully my review has been able to help push the article towards a well-deserved gold star. If you are able to, I am currently seeking a third prose review on my current FAC.--NØ 13:37, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for the support, MaranoFan! Your review is indeed a great help. I'll try to have a look at your latest nom within the week; I would say "Feather" is one of my low-key favorites off her discography. – Relayed (t • c) 14:34, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

750h

lead

No problems here.

background and development

no problems here.

music and lyrics

no problems here.

release and promotion

• that trended on the video sharing service TikTok add a hyphen between "video" and "sharing"

critical reception

• this paragraph's pretty big, i'd split into two. I don't really mind though. 750h+ 08:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

accoldates

no problems here.

Overall this article is near-perfect; excellent work on it, @Relayed:. 750h+ 08:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

750h+, Relayed: I did the hyphen between "video" and "sharing".

I think the Critical Reception paragraph is indeed bulky, but if we split the paragraph to two, we need to rework the section again (transitioning the paragraphs and their ideas to not make it look like a broken bulky paragraph). So, for me, I'll keep it. RFNirmala (talk) 02:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. 750h+ 02:44, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for not responding early. Thanks for taking care of the minor edit, RFNirmala! I'll attempt to split the "Critical reception" into two paragraphs since I also notice that it's quite lengthy. Other than that, thank you for supporting, 750h+! – Relayed (t • c) 15:40, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Heartfox

• "The EP incorporates musical styles including pop, EDM, hip hop, soul, and R&B—all co-written by the band's leader, Pablo—as part of the band's desire to explore genres since their departure from the dance-pop music in their debut album, Get in the Zone (2020)." → This is a lot for one sentence. I think "musical styles such as" would work better. "all co-written" → right now it reads as the "musical styles" are co-written, but this doesn't make sense.
• " trilogy, of which Pagsibol (2021) was the first" → "trilogy that began with Pagsibol (2021)" reads nicer
• "identity strengthening" → quotations in lead require citation per MOS:LEADCITE
• "its songs explored" → its song explore
• "but one considered that the EP ended weakly" → this reads awkwardly and it seems like undue weight to include the critic of one person in the lead
• "which has a set list including all the songs from the EP" → do we really need the tour set list in the album's article lead? It is a given that songs from a tour named after an album would be performed on it.
• "2023 year-end rankings" → rankings of what (best album, worst album?)
• The first paragraph of the background and development section has no references that mention the subject of this article. I question how an entire paragraph (which is a lot more than an explanatory sentence, or footnote or something) like this meets WP:PROPORTION. I am not really a fan of this policy as I feel it has been misinterpreted by other editors in other fields, but there still needs to be some evidence that secondary sources have established a relationship between the background information and the article subject so we do not enter into original research by creating narratives, otherwise it may be more suitable to leave most of this information in the SB19 article.
• "It would be the band's first release to have complete control of, from its development leading up to its release, to which they responded happily:" → reads awkwardly
• suggest linking Tagalog and Cebuano
• what is the purpose of the "Liham" audio sample in the second paragraph when it isn't mentioned in adjacent text?
• "SB19 put the EP together as a collection of songs discerning the boy band's identity, disregarding the trends, standards, and demographic preferences in the music industry" → Is this intention coming from the group or is the statement actually supported by a secondary source?
• "went for a shared creative process in which sounds and music genres the group wanted to include in the record" → I don't understand this phrase
• "Critics praised its lyricism, finding it catchy and interesting", ""Critics find that the band's vocals well suited to the genre"" → I wouldn't put this level of critical reception in a music and lyrics section, it feels out of place.
• "adrenaline-activat[ing]" → quotes need citation directly after given that there are 3 refs at end of sentence and unclear which supports the quote
• "vocally-belted bridge" → "vocally-belted" reads weird. Links next to each other is MOS:SEAOFBLUE. 4 commas in one sentence is too much.
• "whose expressed love" → who has expressed love?
• "which was a" → and was a
• "two Billboard record charts" → sea of blue
• "were accompanied by music videos that were released to" → too much passive voice
• "was grunge-themed" → is grunge-themed
• "the Our Zone fifth-anniversary fan meeting" → unclear what this is
• "kicked off" → "began" is less informal
• "was met with" → received
• "Few critics considered the release a significant one; Rafael Bautista of Nylon Manila regarded the gap since Pagsibol was worth the wait, while Bulatlat's Janness Ann Ellao finds the release proof that the "P-pop movement only seems to grow" → there are some grammar issues here which maybe make it difficult to understand what this is trying to say
• "Critics also complimented the band's vocals and the EP's theme" → not really seeing this in the next sentence
• "Many critics reacted positively with the band exploring" → Many critics reacted positively to the band exploring
• "A separate review published by Billboard Philippines described it as a "great EP", complimenting its songwriting, particularly how the songs feature multilinguistic lyrics, including Cebuano, which they opined added "a new dimension" to the group." → this is very wordy and hard to read. There's too much ideas in one sentence. "described it as a "great EP", complimenting its songwriting" can be cut.
• "However", "Nonetheless" → WP:WTW
• "applauding its quality, songwriting, and cultural impact" → this needs to be rephrased outside of wikivoice
• "where several of the EP's songs also helped SB19 to get nominated for 15 other awards" → this feels informal

I would have to lean oppose right now sorry. Overall it is strong and I think it can become FA in the future, but I have to agree with the reviewer in the previous FAC that for the most part "Often, unnecessary extra words are used, and it lacks clarity; meaning is sometimes difficult to discern", "The prose is unclear, grammatically inconsistent, and overly wordy." Heartfox (talk) 06:37, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Heartfox. Thanks a lot for the in-depth review of the article. In the meantime, I'll attempt to address the concerns you've raised. – Relayed (t • c) 06:58, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Virgo interferometer

Nominator(s): Thuiop (talk) 21:51, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about one of the major current gravitational wave detectors. This is the second nomination; during the first one, the article was found lacking in copy editing, so I submitted a request to WP:GOCER, which was completed a few days ago, hence the resubmission. Looking forward to your comments. Thuiop (talk) 21:51, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Thuiop, have you considered persuing Good article nomination first? It's not technically required for featured articles to be successfully nominated as good articles first, but it is almost always done and is strongly recommended—especially given that this is your first nomination. Good articles have less strict criteria, and a one-on-one dialog is often more efficient to identify and correct certain common problems, compared to the FAC process. Remsense ‥ 论 21:59, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Remsense, I was not aware of that. I did know about Good articles though, but considered it as a second option; I usually contribute to the French Wikipedia, where "FAC" are usually not already "GA" before the nomination. If you think this is a better idea, I am ok with rescinding this nomination and go to GA before. Thuiop (talk) 08:00, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would recommend it, but keep in mind that it sometimes takes a prolonged period of time before an editor will pick up your submission for review—often days or weeks, sometimes even months. I think this one wouldn't sit too long though. Remsense ‥ 论 08:48, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I will do this if there are no other comment against this idea in the next one or two days. Thanks! Thuiop (talk) 08:55, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Graham Beards

I don't think a GA nomination is needed. I have made some edits to the article, which can be found in the history. The images look a little cluttered, at least on my screens, but this is no big deal. In my view this is an excellent, and fairly lay-friendly, introduction to an exciting new field in cosmology. I am interested in what other reviewers have to say, but I am happy to add my tentative support. Graham Beards (talk) 10:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Airship

I have placed {{cn}} tags in a few places; note that image captions do require citations if the information within is not sourced elsewhere in the body. In my opinion, the prose is good but in need of improvement; I cannot comment on the technical and scientific details. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:14, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I added the missing citations. Thuiop (talk) 12:19, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• How does the gallery here align with WP:GALLERY?

• File:Logo-virgo.png: source link is dead. Ditto File:GW170814.png

• File:GW170814_signal.png: where is this licensing coming from? The source site has an all rights reserved notice

• File:Virgo3_1.jpg: is a more specific source available? Ditto File:BestVirgoSensitivityCurveVSR4.png

• File:VirgoDetectionBench2015.jpg is tagged as lacking source information. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:04, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Indeed, it seems it does not. Do you think it would make sense to move it at the beginning of the instrument section, replacing the already present File:Virgo aerial view 01.jpg ?
• Fixed.
• I added the original paper which is indeed under CC.
• I added extra sources in the caption. Did you mean to add the sources in Commons? These files were directly uploaded by the collaboration, but I can link articles where they were used, although those articles are not necessarily under the correct license.
• Fixed.

Thanks for the comments! Thuiop (talk) 11:43, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The Commons page for each image should include sourcing that confirms that the image is available under the licensing given. Do you mean that the licensing given is not correct, or that the articles where they are used don't credit them properly? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Ah, no, I meant that these two files were produced by the Virgo collaboration and upload by someone from the collaboration in its name, falling under the "own work" category. It was also used by the collaboration in other places (including a journal paper), but these do not fall under the same licence as far as I know. If you think this is important, I can contact the person who uploaded it and have them confirm this officially. Thuiop (talk) 07:44, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes please - this should go through VRT. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:FAC/Help:Contents[reply]

  Understood, I will get this done in the next few days. Thuiop (talk) 12:45, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Took care of it ! Thuiop (talk) 13:20, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment

Three weeks in and just the single general support. Unless this nomination makes significant further progress towards a consensus to promote over the next four or five days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:53, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF

I'll try to start a review within the next day or two. Please ping me if I haven't started by Wednesday. Hog Farm _Talk 16:17, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm here is the reminder. Thanks for your interest! Thuiop (talk) 08:45, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My work schedule has gotten crazy this week - I am hoping to get to this Friday or Saturday. Hog Farm _Talk 12:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

• "The Virgo interferometer operates with similar detectors ...": it took me a few seconds to parse this. I took "similar" to mean "similar to detectors mentioned earlier". I understood the point by the end of the paragraph, but how about changing this to "The Virgo interferometer shares data with other similar detectors, including ..."?

  I see what you mean. However, the point was also that observations are jointly planned with other detectors. I modified the formulation to make it clearer and still reflect that.

• "Developed when gravitational waves were only a prediction of general relativity, it has now detected several of them. Its first detection was in 2017 (together with the two LIGO detectors)" This doesn't make it clear that the Virgo was not involved in the first such detection. Could we rephrase, maybe like so: "Gravitational waves, once only a prediction of general relativity, were first detected by the LIGO interferometers in 2015. The first event detected by Virgo as well as LIGO was in 2017; this was quickly followed by ..."?

  This is the only one I did not address yet; I wanted to also make clear that the instrument was developed at a time were no GW had been detected, and operated for a long time before the first detection. Your reformulation, although technically correct, makes it look like Virgo "came late to the party". I will try to think of a better formulation, perhaps extending what is in the parentheses in the current version.

• "The Virgo Collaboration consolidates all the researchers": suggest "consists of" as simpler.

  Done.

• "which gathers scientists from the other major gravitational-waves experiments to jointly analyze the data; this is crucial for gravitational-wave detection": the source doesn't say that this collaboration is crucial for gravitational-wave detection -- I think it's a point worth making but we need another source that says it.

  Done.

• "Many believed at the time that this was not possible; only France and Italy began work on the project, which was first presented in 1987." It's not really clear what "this was not possible" refers to -- I think it must be the detection of low-frequencies, but it might mean, more specifically, that using an interferometer to detect low frequencies was considered impossible.

  Indeed, I made that more explicit.

• And "which was first presented" is vague: if I understand the source, "proposed" would be clearer.

  Done.

• "Virgo's first goal was to directly observe gravitational waves, of which the three-decade study of the binary pulsar 1913+16 presented indirect evidence." Meaning that the first goal was to observe these specific waves? The first part of the sentence reads oddly because detecting these waves is Virgo's only goal. To avoid that reading, how about "Virgo's first goal was to directly observe gravitational waves from the binary pulsar 1913+16, for which there was indirect evidence from three decades of study"?

  Maybe this was confusing; the goal was not to observe those in particular, rather it was somewhat clear at the time that they existed, but not whether it was feasible to detect them. I changed it to make that clearer.

• The article says both that initial Virgo "reached its expected sensitivity" and that "the original Virgo detector was not sensitive enough". Are these two statements are in conflict? The project did not intend to build an instrument that was not sensitive enough. If these aren't in conflict, then presumably that means the designed sensitivity turned out to be insufficient; if so I think we should say so.

  Your last sentence is correct. I removed the "not sensitive enough" part, to instead say that there were no observations.

• The first mention of "mirror towers" had me going down to the "Instrument" section to understand what these were, and I think it might be better to reverse the order of "History" and "Instrument". Putting the instrument description first gives the reader the vocabulary to understand the history section. That would also avoid issues such as saying "The new mirrors were larger (350 mm in diameter, with a weight of 40 kg)" when we don't know how big the old mirrors were.

  I did that, but I am actually now wondering whether this was a good idea, since the Instrument section also mentions the initial and Advanced Virgo periods.

• There's a mixture of tenses in the second paragraph of "Advanced Virgo detector": past tense ("the new mirrors were larger"); present tense ("The optical elements ... are under vacuum"); and subjunctive ("A system of adaptive optics would be installed"). I suggest sticking with past tense throughout.

  Done.

• "In the original plan, the laser power was expected to reach 200 W in its final configuration." Is this phrasing because we don't have a source that gives the laser power as built? Does "final configuration" refer to advanced Virgo, or does "original" mean this is a spec from initial Virgo?

  I left it like this; it is indeed complicated to source the exact laser power, as it was expected to ramp up and has changed many times throughout the detector's life.

• You introduce the abbreviation "aLIGO" and then don't use it anywhere. I think it can be dropped, but what is the difference between LIGO and aLIGO? Is it something the reader needs to understand?

  The abbreviation itself is not really useful indeed, but there was an important point, which is that the LIGO detectors also had their "Advanced LIGO" program. I reflected that.

• "during the O2 observation period": this is not explained until further below. I think an overview of the observational program, as outlined in the box, would be helpful to give the reader the O1, O2, ... vocabulary and some context, before we give the results of the runs. From the box it's not clear that O1 even applies to Virgo, in which case perhaps it's terminology from the LVK collaboration rather than just Virgo? If so I think we should say so. And looking at sentences like "Virgo announced that it would not join the beginning of O4" I see that must be right. I assume this planning of collaborative observations is in order to have the data to cross-check or reinforce the interpretation of detection events? That's implied but not stated.

  This is LVK terminology, I added a phrase to explain that.

• The post-O3 upgrades have an understandable difficulty with tenses since some are in the past and some in the future. I think the present tense ("the first precedes the O4 run") is not a good choice, though; the paragraph is written without making it clear what's been done and what remains to do, and I think doing that, with past tense and then future tense, would read more naturally.

  Good idea, I did that.

That takes me down to the end of the history section. I'll pause there, since I've suggested moving sections around; let me know what you think and I can continue when these points are resolved. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:20, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments! I have addressed most of them, and will put individual answers to make it easier to read. Thuiop (talk) 12:35, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that makes it much easier to see what's addressed and what isn't. I've struck most points above; I will read through again, though probably not tonight, and bear in mind what you say about the reversal of the sections perhaps causing other issues. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Suicide of Rachel Foster

Nominator(s): PanagiotisZois (talk) 23:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a video game that proved somewhat controversial upon its release due to tackling taboo subjects like suicide and pedophilia. A game in the vein of Firewatch and Gone Home, The Suicide of Rachel Foster is a walking simulator where players navigate the eery Shining-esque hotel owned by the player character Nicole's family. There, Nicole hopes to uncover the true nature of 16-year-old Rachel's suicide, who seemingly killed herself after the community found out about her "affair" with Nicole's father and ensuing pregnancy. Unsurprisingly, the game's depiction of pedophilia and suicide were some of the topics most-discussed by journalists. Outside of the more sensationalistic aspects, the game's setting and characters were well-received, but the story and gameplay proved less interesting to reviewers.

Image review by Nikkimaria

• Suggest adding alt text
  • I've added alt text to both images, though I can never be sure if it's an adequate description or not.
• File:The_Suicide_of_Rachel_Foster_-_Gameplay.jpg needs a stronger, more unique FUR - at the moment it's almost identical to the lead image. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:03, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I changed the template that is used and also the fair-use rationale.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 10:25, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from BP!

I'll get back to it as soon as possible. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 05:50, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Be consistent with whether or not the citations use title case for the titles. Make sure to italicize game titles in the citation titles per MOS:CONFORMTITLE. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 10:33, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Done. Unless I missed something, I've made sure to italicize references to the game (and other games/films) in titles, as well as capitalizing all words except words like "if". PanagiotisZois (talk) 14:32, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  After reading it again, I will Support this article for promotion. Though, I'll admit that I didn't like that piece from Screen Rant at all. 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 01:08, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you! I guess I shouldn't be surprised you wouldn't like the Screen Rant source; still remember Ada's FAC. I did check the reliable sources list, and Screen Rant is considered appropriate when discussing entertainment-related pages, such as this. However, if someone else raises concerns about it, I could remove it. Admittedly, it's not used much as is.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 12:56, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Fair enough 🍕BP!🍕 (🔔) 13:07, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Crisco

I've had this on my backlog for ages. Will review.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 09:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• the abuse between Leonard and Rachel - Implies that Rachel was also abusive of Leonard, which seems incongruous with what's been presented so far. Perhaps "Leonard's abuse of Rachel"?
  • Honestly, that's one of the hardest parts of this video game. How something is versus how the game depicts it as. Although Leonard groomed Rachel and their relationship is pedophilic, the game never really calls their relationship for what it is. Should the word "abuse" be changed to "relationship", or something else?--PanagiotisZois (talk) 12:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Relationship does seem to be the more neutral term.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 12:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Understandable. It is also how the game frames it as. Made the appropriate changes. PanagiotisZois (talk) 12:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Thanks. Give me a shout when you're done the below, and I'll revisit.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• such as child sexual abuse and suicide, to portray them with sensitivity. - Not sure the comma is correct
  • Removed.
• Three sentences in a row start with variations of "it" in the third paragraph of the lede. Worth reshuffling?
  • Changed.
• Nicole's attempts to do so anyway, but is unable to do so, angering her. - Do so ... do so
  • Given that this part isn't all that significant to the plot, I just removed the sentence.
• Rachel might still be alive, collecting various clues - Is Rachel collecting clues, or is Nicole?
  • Clarified that it's Nicole collecting clues.
• Irving is Rachel's younger brother and in their abusive household, only his sister brought him joy. - Perhaps "Irving is Rachel's younger brother, and she was the only one who brought him joy and in their abusive household."?
  • Made a few changes; hopefully for the better.
• The game was developed by the Italian studio One-O-One Games using Unreal Engine 4 and published by Daedalic Entertainment.[6][7] The game was directed by Daniele Azara and its music was composed by Federico Landini. - Repetition
  • Changed.
• From the beginning of the game's development, the studio wanted the narrative and gameplay to complement one another, rather than finishing the story first and then choosing an appropriate gameplay style. - Perhaps "Rather than finish the story first and then choosing an appropriate gameplay style, from the beginning of the game's development the studio wanted the narrative and gameplay to complement one another."? Feels a bit more logical in flow.
• being set in an enclosed space to increase the claustrophobia. - The hotel itself wasn't in an enclosed space. Perhaps "being replete with enclosed spaces"?
• the Overlook Hotel, featured in Stanley Kubrick's The Shining (1980) - Perhaps "as featured"? That better distinguishes the Overlook from the one in the novel or the television series.
• Two "according to"s at the beginning of the Reception section
• handling of suicide, especially regarding Nicole's suicide attempt at the end, - Worth recasting to avoid double mentions of suicide?
  • Reworked the sentence and expanded on what Bell had to say about the subject.

Overall, very tight.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:08, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Crisco 1492: Thank you. :) I believe I've made most of the necessary changes, though I've also changed a few things a bit, so I'm not sure if said changes also need revision.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 20:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Looks good. Happy to support! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:29, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you for your comments. :D PanagiotisZois (talk) 15:59, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from Aoba47 (pass)

For clarification, I am using this version of the article for my source review. My comments are below:

• Have you looked through to see if there was any academic coverage on this game by using tools like Google Scholar? I have found some potential sources here, but for some of them, you would need to go through the Wikipedia Library to access them: A Review of Indie Games for Serious Mental Health Game Design, Narrative Space in Videogames, and Using Indie Games to Inform Serious Mental Health Games Design. These are all conference papers so I am unsure how that works for Wikipedia, but they were published by Springer Publishing, which is a notable publishing company. It may be worthwhile to look into this type of coverage further.
  • Good idea. I'll be looking into it.
    • Take as much time as you need, and let me know if there is anything that I can do to help you with this part. Aoba47 (talk) 16:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • I looked into all three sources. I went through both sources talking about Nicole's attempted suicide. Admittedly, I didn't read in-depth every thing these two chapters said, but I believe I pinpointed the most important details; as with other critics, they didn't like the ending. The third book source is about the Timberline. Although I do for the most part understand what it's trying to say, it's a bit too theoretical for my taste and focuses on something that never really interested me when analyzing texts; the geometry/geography of physical spaces. It also has A LOT to say about the Timberline, so I'm not sure how I could even consense all of that. Even the other book sources talking about Nicole's suicide still came out to almost 8 whole lines.--PanagiotisZois (talk) 19:57, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • Thank you for the response. I understand that it can be difficult to incorporate academic sources into a Wikipedia article. I think that the final paragraph in the "Critical response" section could be condensed. I am not sure that the serious game classification or the Actual Sunlight comparisons are particularly useful, and I believe it would be better to focus on the discussions regarding the critique that the game uses suicide for shock value. I would think this could folded into the paragraph directly above it, which already focuses on the game's handling of suicide.
          • All right, I've condensed it. I think its size is more appropriate now, and the section fits better with the paragraph about suicide.
        • The Narrative Space in Videogames article is primarily saying that the hotel is set in such a way to intentionally confuse the player and their connection to the story and characters. It might fit in the second paragraph of the "Critical response" section as that is already about the hotel, but since it is more of an analysis than a review, it may not work out that well. I will leave that up to you. Aoba47 (talk) 21:55, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The citations for the most part list both the website/work and the publisher, but there are some spots where only one is listed, such as Citation 6 including only the website (The Washington Post) and Citation 13 including only the website (JeuxOnline). I do not think it is necessary to include both, particularly for well known citations such as Metacritic, but it is important to be consistent.
  • I just wanted to add a reminder that this part has not been addressed yet. Aoba47 (talk) 21:36, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Aoba47: Regarding the Unreal Engine, Nintendo, Italian Video Game Awards, and DStars sources, I'm not quite sure how else to cite them. In the case of the first one, I could label "Unreal Engine" as the website and "Epic Games" as the publisher, but I'm not sure if that's right either.
      • I think that the question then becomes how useful is it to have both the website/work and publisher if they cannot be applied consistently throughout the citations. It may just be me, but I am not sure how useful it is for readers to have the publisher for citations like Bloody Disgusting or Metacritic, but I looked at recent FAs on video games, such as Islanders (video game), which has a similiar inconsistency, but was passed as a FA without issue so I think that this is just a matter of personal preference so it will no longer be an issue. Aoba47 (talk) 14:31, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I would be consistent on whether title case is used for the citation titles or not as there are some instances, such as Citation 30, where it is not being used.
  • Oops. This point was raised a few days ago by Boneless Pizza. I made sure to use title case everywhere, but didn't add the source for the sequel until later, and in my excitement I forgot to use the title case.
    • That is understandable. I was only made aware of the title case stuff relatively recently, and I completely understand getting caught up in the moment when you find something new. I would not have expected a sequel for this game, and I am curious on how it will turn out. Aoba47 (talk) 16:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Citation 9 is no longer active and currently redirects to a spam website. The archive link also leads to an error screen. I also cannot open Citation 25 as it leads to an error screen (at least for me), but the archive link does work for me.
  • Regarding Citation 9, the archive page actually works just fine for me. However, since you also mention further down that this is one source that's unreliable, I decided to remove it altogether. It's unreliability was actually raised by IceWelder during the GAN, so I kinda expected that I'd have to remove it. I guess I was just waiting for someone to say so.
  • Regarding Citation 25, on my end it actually said that it's a malicious website (probably from my antivirus program) so I removed that as well. Besides, the second source I used there already shows that Rachel Foster got nominated but lost.
    • Thank you for the responses to both. I am glad that you were able to have a citation that would cover the second part. Aoba47 (talk) 16:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I partially relied on the WP:VG/RS to judge the reliability and appropriateness of the sources. I am not as familiar with the non-English sources so could you please explain how/why the following would be appropriate for a FA? To be clear, I am not saying that they should be removed, but I wanted some more insight on these: L'Ambidextre, Nikoofar Music, and ProSieben Games.
  • Regarding Nikoofar Music, I explain more above why I removed it. Having checked L'Ambidextre out again, it seems to be a blog, so not all that reliable. As for ProSieben Games, I'll admit I don't really have any information about this specific site and how reliable or not it is. I do know that ProSieben itself is a news channel, and from the little I do know, ProSieben is considered reputable.
    • Thank you for addressing this for me. I agree with your rationale for the ProSieban source. I noticed that you did remove Graziano Pimpolari as the game's artist, but I think that you could cite this information directly to the game's credits, where they are listed as the art director and user interface artists. I have used credits for this kind of thing for Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Wrath of the Darkhul King without any issue, and it may be helpful to use so more key information is included in the article. Aoba47 (talk) 16:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• This is not part of the source review, but I would re-examine short sections, specifically the "Accolades" subsection and the "Sequel" section. The accolades could be folded into the general reception section, and until more information on the sequel comes out, I do not think a one-sentence section is necessary.
  • I can definitely place the "Accolade" subsection into the "Critical response" one and just remove both subsections. However, how could the "Sequel" section be placed somewhere else. Could we "in good faith" leave it there under the assumption more information will come out in the coming months about it?--PanagiotisZois (talk) 08:41, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's fair. As I said above, this falls outside of the scope of a source review so I will leave this up to reviewers who are looking at the prose. I can understand your perspective on it. Aoba47 (talk) 16:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • It seems like the "Accolades" subsection has been put back into the article. I will not dwell on it as again, it is outside of the scope of my source review, but I just do not think that this particular structure is the best approach. Aoba47 (talk) 21:36, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These are my comments for now. Either tomorrow or later in the week, I will do a spot check to make sure that things said in the article are supported in the citations and to make sure the information in the citation structure (i.e. authors, publication date) are accurate. I hope that this review is helpful, and please let me know if you have any questions. Best of luck with this FAC! Aoba47 (talk) 00:16, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For clarification, I am looking at this version for this set of comments:

• For this sentence, (Players take control of Nicole as she explores the Timberline Hotel), Citation 2 does not use the name of the hotel. This is nitpick-y as Citation 2 does talk about the family hotel, but I would add Citation 3 here as well just to support the actual hotel name.
  • Done
• It may be helpful to include examples of the puzzles in the prose. For instance, Citation 3 lists "hunting for a screwdriver or a generator switch" as examples of the "very light environmental puzzle" in the game. Citation 18 mentions using the flash from the polaroid camera as way to navigate during a blackout. Citation 4 talks about a map feature that may be useful to bring up in the article. I am mostly just bringing some gameplay areas that could be expanded with the sources already in the article.
• For Citation 11, I think it would be more beneficial to use the interview citation template instead.
  • I think I did that correctly.
    • Looks good to me. Aoba47 (talk) 14:31, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I did a spot-check and the authors, publication dates, etc. match between the sources and the citations.
• I am uncertain about using quotes from non-English sources. Examples are "central to the horror experience" and "religious population and legal framework that offered a plausible setting for the narrative of psychological horror and moral taboo [the developers] were making", which are both tied to Citation 11. However, neither are really direct quotes, and are translated versions of these quotes. I think it may be best to paraphrase in this context, and I would double-check the article for other instances of this type of quote.
  • @Aoba47: I might be wrong, but I checked the non-English sources used in this article, and none of them exist in the article with quotations. Citation 11 does come from a French website, but the article itself was actually presented in English. I think there was also a French-language version of the same interview, but the one cited here is the English-language one.
    • Apologies for that. That is what I get for doing a review later at night when I am tired. Aoba47 (talk) 15:08, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• This is outside of the scope of a source review, but I would avoid the "with X verb-ing" sentence construction when possible as it is something that is often pointed out and discouraged in FACs. I do not have a particularly strong opinion on it, but I still thought it was worth drawing your attention to it. An example of this would be (with Nicole and Irving's relationship and voice actors also being commended) in the lead.

Thank you for your patience with my review. I believe that should be everything, but once everything has been addressed, I will double-check through everything just to make sure that I have not missed anything. I hope you are having a great week so far. Aoba47 (talk) 21:36, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything, and apologies again for my mistake with the JeuxOnline source. Everything looks good to me in regards to the sources. They are reliable and appropriate for a potential video game FA, support the information provided in the article, and are formatted correctly. This passes my source review. I hope that this was helpful, and thank you again for your patience. Aoba47 (talk) 14:34, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking the time to do a source review. And for going above and beyond to not do just that, but also give me suggestions on how to enlarge and improve the article's content. And also informing me that those academic sources could be accessed through the Wikipedia Library. PanagiotisZois (talk) 15:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the kind words. I am just glad that I could help. Aoba47 (talk) 22:25, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi Aoba47. This is the nominator's first run at FAC, so it also needs a source to text integrity check and a plagiarism check. Would you consider your sour source review to also have appropriately have covered them? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 00:20, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you for the ping. Apologies for not clarifying this in my above review. I am not that experienced in source reviews if I am being honest. I have done a source to text integrity check, and I did not notice any issues. I also did a plagiarism check, and for the most part, everything looks good to me, but I did find something.

  Looking through the article again, I did notice two instances in the article, ("affected by the tragedies surrounding" and "to encourage players to think critically about"), where the prose was taken directly from the source (i.e. Citation 12) and I believe both parts should be paraphrased. Apologies for not catching this during my review. Hopefully, both should be somewhat easy fixes. Thank you again for the ping. I greatly appreciate it. Aoba47 (talk) 01:46, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Aoba47: I have paraphrased both sections, though I'm not sure if the changes are necessarily good. PanagiotisZois (talk) 13:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you for the response. I have done a small copy-edit to one of the parts, but feel free to revert it if you disagree with the change. It looks good to me. Aoba47 (talk) 16:40, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joe

Forthcoming. JOEBRO64 13:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Joe, just a reminder. Gog the Mild (talk) 00:23, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I have some notes for a review. Posting sometime later today or early tomorrow. JOEBRO64 13:53, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I get that this is a fairly plot-heavy game, but I think the first paragraph of the lede should have some gameplay details. I think that's pretty important to cover when introducing a reader to a video game.
• Going off the previous point, I think the first paragraph is a little excessive on plot details. If I were you, I would reduce it. Here's my recommendation:
  • Original: The story follows Nicole Wilson in Lewis and Clark County, Montana, during December 1993 on a visit to her family's Timberline Hotel. Having left ten years prior with her mother following the revelation that her father Leonard was in a sexual relationship with the teenaged Rachel Foster, Nicole plans on quickly inspecting the Timberline and selling it. After being forced to stay there due to a heavy snowstorm starting after her arrival, Nicole's only contact with the outside world is a Federal Emergency Management Agency agent named Irving. With his help, Nicole decides to investigate the relationship between Leonard and Rachel, as well as her mysterious suicide.
  • Suggested revision: The story, set in December 1993, follows Nicole Wilson on a visit to her family's Timberline Hotel. Having left ten years prior with her mother after learning of her father Leonard's affair with the teenaged Rachel Foster, Nicole plans to quickly inspect the Timberline and sell it. She is forced to stay longer due to a heavy snowstorm, and decides to investigate Leonard and Rachel's relationship, as well as Rachel's mysterious suicide.

then dedicate a sentence or two to summarizing the gameplay.

• Here's a copyedit suggestion: hit Ctrl+F and search for "the game's" and "of the game". You will find that in 99.9% of all cases, you can cut them without losing anything. Examples:
  • "The game's narrative and gameplay were developed simultaneously to ensure that one would complement the other.
  • "The game's setting—the Timberline Hotel—was praised, as was the sound design for helping create an appropriate atmosphere."
  • "Joffard denounced the narrative for not being engaging enough, causing the player to become a spectator, as well as the game's ending and twists, finding them inconsistent with the rest of the game's story."
  • "The Windows version of the game was released on February 19, 2020."
  • "During the course of the game, Nicole will have to solve "very light environmental puzzles" to progress with the story, such as acquiring a screwdriver or finding a generator switch."
• In general, I think the prose could use a lot of tightening: I think you could be a bit more compact and straight to the point, and use the active voice as much as possible. I'll reproduce the second lede paragraph:
  • In developing The Suicide of Rachel Foster, One-O-One Games aimed to create a horror game that emphasized suspense and fear instead of traditional monsters. The game's narrative and gameplay were developed simultaneously to ensure that one would complement the other. The game was created as a walking simulator to allow real-life topics to be explored, given the genre's emphasis on narrative. The Overlook Hotel from the 1980 film The Shining was used as inspiration for the Timberline's architecture. The developers sought professional advice for the game's depiction of topics such as child sexual abuse and suicide to portray them with sensitivity. The game was released in February 2020 for Windows and in September 2020 for PlayStation 4 and Xbox One; it was ported to the Nintendo Switch in October 2021.

Here's what I was able to cut it down to in just a few minutes:

One-O-One Games aimed to create a horror game that emphasized suspense and fear over traditional monsters, and developed the narrative and gameplay simultaneously to ensure they would complement each other. They designed The Suicide of Rachel Foster as a walking simulator to explore real-life topics, given the genre's emphasis on narrative, and the Overlook Hotel from the 1980 film The Shining served as inspiration for the Timberline. The developers sought professional advice for the depiction of topics such as child sexual abuse and suicide to portray them with sensitivity. Daedalic released The Suicide of Rachel Foster for Windows in February 2020, for PlayStation 4 and Xbox One in September 2020, and for Nintendo Switch in October 2021.

I've managed to reduce the word count substantially without removing any information or changing any meaning. I would take some scissors, go through the rest of the article, and see what you can trim. You'll be left with leaner, clearer, and more direct prose. I recommend the following essays if you need some additional assistance: WP:REDEX, WP:ELEVAR

• Will do a reference spotcheck sometime tomorrow.

I guess you could call this a light oppose for the moment; I think the research and structure's good, but the writing needs some cleanup before we're ready for the star. Ping me once you've gone through I'll give the article another read, and I'll make some minor tweaks myself if necessary. JOEBRO64 19:57, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your suggestions! I agree that I can be more direct and concise. A problem I often struggle with; that and repeating words and/or information for some reason. I'll try to thoroughly go through the article and see how I can trim a few things or change others. PanagiotisZois (talk) 23:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TheJoebro64: I've gone through the article again. I tried trimming down certain things, expanding a couple others, and reorganizing here and there. PanagiotisZois (talk) 13:53, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds great, I'll take another look sometime tomorrow. JOEBRO64 14:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose from Gog the Mild

Recusing to review.

• "The story, set in ..." What story? Maybe something like 'The game revolves around [is focused on/is centered around/or similar] a story, set in ...'
• "all the while capable of using a radio-telephone to". Optional: 'all the while able to use a radio-telephone to'.
• "to ensure they would complement each other." Maybe 'so they would complement each other'?
• "They designed The Suicide of Rachel Foster as a walking simulator to explore real-life topics". See MOS:NOFORCELINK: "Do use a link wherever appropriate, but as far as possible do not force a reader to use that link to understand the sentence. The text needs to make sense to readers who cannot follow links." I think "walking simulator" falls foul of this. Any chance of a brief in line explanation? And in the main article, where you could be a little more expansive if you wish.
• "and the Overlook Hotel from the 1980 film The Shining served as inspiration for the Timberline." Perhaps put this in a separate sentence? It doesn't seem to have any compelling link to the first half of the sentence.

Lead reviewed. More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "FEMA". In full at first mention please. (Both in the lead and in the main article.
  • Done.
• Does Irving have a first name?
  • It's Crawford. Granted, given the reveal at the end that he's Rachel's brother and was only pretending to be a FEMA agent, it's possible his first and last name are both fake; Rachel's surname being Foster. But the game never acknowledges this, so...
• "very light environmental puzzles". The MoS on quotations: "[t]he source must be named in article text if the quotation is an opinion". Emphasis in original.
• "Throughout the game, Nicole acquires a ..." "throughout" is factually and/or grammatically incorrect. You mean "during', but have recently used it to start a sentence. Maybe delete "Throughout the game" altogether.
  • Replaced with "as the game progresses".
• "Repeated mentions of "Nicole". Replace one or two with 'she'.
  • Done.
• Having skimmed the "Plot section it seems to give too much detail. I would argue for a more summary style. I will leave reviewing this section until we reach a conclusion on this point and any agreed actions have been completed. I note that TheJoebro64 may be making a similar point. TJ64, is that right? Gog the Mild (talk) 22:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't entirely disagree about the section's length. I do wish for JoeBro to leave a few more comments, but once that's done I will try and condense or remove a few things. PanagiotisZois (talk) 23:11, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you ping me once you are happy for me to formally review this section. Thanks. Moving on:

• "was designed as a walking simulator due to". "walking simulator" again.
• "The Suicide of Rachel Foster was designed as a walking simulator due to the genre's emphasis on narrative, allowing for the exploration of real-life topics". So, does the genre allow "for the exploration of real-life topics" or just this game? Why did "the genre's emphasis on narrative" cause the game to be "designed as a walking simulator"? Eg was it as a contrast, to fit in with consumers' expectations of the genre, both, something else?

• The developers specifically stated that: "As you can imagine we very much love this game genre [walking sims], since it places an incredible focus on narrative mechanics and is a great format to approach real-life subject matters in an interesting manner". It was the genre itself that allows for the exploration of real-life topics "in an interesting manner". Even more specifically, it is the "narrative mechanics" of this genre which allow for this exploration to take place. This being why the developers wanted to make a walking simulator.

Interesting; I still have no clue what a "walking simulator is and/or does. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, I haven't really played all that many adventure games myself, but from my understanding, walking sims are adventure games that specifically focus on environmental exploration, having very little in the way of enemies, boss battles, etc. There's also less emphasis on the gameplay aspects, in a way, and much more focus on the story, the characters, and their relationships to one another. The setting and environment is a core component, as exploring said environment is what helps players piece the puzzle together and figure out the story. Should I add a note in the lede where I summarize what walking sims are? PanagiotisZois (talk) 21:53, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "the game has over 100,000 words of dialogue." What has this to do with the earlier part of the sentence? Or is it just an interesting factoid?

• I guess it does come across a bit more as a fun tidbit. Admittedly, I'm not sure if many other games have such information somewhere in their articles. I can just remove; it won't affect the article much.

• "The hotel's design drew heavily from the Overlook Hotel, the main setting of Stanley Kubrick's The Shining (1980)." Why?

• I checked the source again, and ONE-O-ONE stated that by trying to make the Timberline look like the Overlook Hotel, they hoped that they could "plac[e] the player in an environment that would subconsciously trigger players to feel fear based on experience and expectation". I guess the indication here being that the Overlook and The Shining are both so famous (I've never seen the movie) that the developers knew if they made the setting resemble the movie, players would experience fear simply by association. PanagiotisZois (talk) 20:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "and because the state has a "religious population and legal framework" which provided a "plausible setting for the narrative of psychological horror and moral taboo [they] were making"." Attribute in line per the MoS on quotations please.

• If I'm understanding this rule correct, I have to point out that this statements came from X source, right? Like "According to an interview with JeuxOnLine, the developers set...".--PanagiotisZois (talk) 20:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I am stopping here and I am afraid opposing. There is clearly a FA worthy article in there, but I don't think this is it - the amount of work being done or flagged up is beyond what is reasonable at FAC. It is a pity that it didn't attract more input at PR, and it would IMO benefit from both a visit to GoCE and the input of a FAC mentor. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:51, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A FAC mentor seems like overkill, but I understand this candidacy could fail and how going through GoCE could be helpful. I do appreciate you taking the time to start a review and have a few questions. Firstly, would you mind if I addressed your comments up to the end of the "Setting and genre" subsection and asked for a few clarifications?

Of course not, including continuing off-Wiki if it comes to that.

Secondly, as you commented on "the amount of work being done or flagged up", are the lede and "Gameplay" sections up to FA standards?

Wrap up my comments, and anyone else's, for those two sections, let me know and I'll go through and give you my opinion. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:29, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PanagiotisZois (talk) 17:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Dennis

Nominator(s): ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:28, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Hurricane Dennis, the first major hurricane to hit the United States during the busy 2005 Atlantic hurricane season (it would be one of four). Dennis used to be a featured article from 2006 to 2010. Over the years, Juliancolton (talk · contribs) created a number of sub-articles for Dennis involving the United States, and the article was close to being a featured topic, only the main article was extremely short (for a retired storm article). So following the merger of the sub-articles, plus additional content and copyediting, I now feel that the article is among the most thorough accounts of the hurricane. Hopefully I can address any of your concerns, should they arise. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:28, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Don't use fixed px size

• Some images are missing alt text

• File:Dennis_2005_path.png: formatting of the image description page appears to be broken - could you confirm what's meant to be appearing and not? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:20, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the image review Nikkimaria (talk · contribs). Zzzs (talk · contribs) helped fix the first two points. As for the third, I'm not sure if I understand correctly. The page for Dennis 205 path has the standard information that appears in every tropical cyclone track map, such as the fact that it's in the public domain, what the symbols mean, when it was made. Compare to other featured hurricane articles' track maps here and here. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed that one too FYI. The code was broken by the standard file info format. That's all I'm going to be doing for this nomination. ZZZ'S 16:20, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh sweet thanks for fixing that too. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:40, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comments

• Comment: Just a drive-by, but I could not tell from the lead paragraph whether it briefly attained the record strength and held the record permanently, or whether it attained the record strength for its duration and held the record only briefly (or possibly both). An alternate option might be "...tropical cyclone that briefly became held the record for the strongest Atlantic hurricane ever to form before August"? Mrfoogles (talk) 18:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The lead does have - "Six days later, Dennis's record intensity was surpassed by Hurricane Emily." That being said, I used your wording to tweak that first sentence. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:33, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

EG

I might be able to leave a few comments later. Feel free to ping me if I haven't left any comments by Friday. – Epicgenius (talk) 16:36, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

• Para 1: "Six days later, Dennis's record intensity was surpassed by Hurricane Emily." - This sentence seems like an outlier, given that the previous and next sentences both talk about Dennis. Should this be moved to the end of the paragraph and slightly reworded?

• I moved the bit about Emily to the end of the paragraph, changing it to ""While Dennis was still active as a tropical cyclone, it lost its status as the strongest hurricane before August to Hurricane Emily, which also moved through the Caribbean." What do you think? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• That sounds good to me. Epicgenius (talk) 20:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 2: "However, the storm only killed one person in Jamaica but resulted in over $34.5 million in damages." - To me, it sounds somewhat awkward to start a sentence with "However" and then also use the word "but" in the middle of the sentence. I would cut "however", since the word "only" already emphasizes the low death toll.

• Hmm, I removed the "however" "but" and "only", since they all carry a bit of weight. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 2: "Its agricultural industry was also affected" - Granma Province's, or Cuba's?

• Clarified the whole nation. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 3: "In neighboring Georgia, the storm killed one person due to drowning." - I'd personally go with something like "In neighboring Georgia, one person drowned due to the storm".

• Changed as suggested. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 3: "Dennis spawned ten tornadoes in the United States, all of them weak." - Could this be reworded to just "Dennis spawned ten weak tornadoes in the United States", or is there a reason for this specific wording?

• Not really actually, changed as suggested. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 4: "Dennis's passage led to the retirement of its name due to its effects" - Similarly, I'd say something like "Due to the extensive damage, the name "Dennis" was retired". "Effects" is vague; "extensive damage" is more clear.

• What about - "Due to the extensive damage, the World Meteorological Organization retired the name Dennis."

• I would try to put a bit more distance between these two links per WP:SEAOFBLUE. Otherwise, it looks good to me. Epicgenius (talk) 20:44, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I reworeded it to be in passive voice, Epicgenius (talk · contribs). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:05, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Sounds good. By the way, @FAC coordinators, please don't archive this nomination yet. I'm still working on my review and will have more comments on Thursday. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More in a bit. – Epicgenius (talk) 14:50, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the feedback so far, Epicgenius (talk · contribs). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:38, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I'll have some more feedback tomorrow. – Epicgenius (talk) 20:42, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the delay. Due to work and a concert that I was excited about, I forgot about this. I'll resume my review below.

Meteorological history:

• Para 1: "It later emerged over the Atlantic Ocean on June 29 and moved quickly to the west" - I might be missing something, but did it disappear and re-emerge, or did it travel over Africa for three days?

• It travelled over Africa for three days. I reordered it to make it clearer. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 1: "It then subsequently traversed" - The words "then" and "subsequently" are redundant to each other in this context.

• Yea, I just combined it with the previous sentence. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 2: The second paragraph contains several "howevers", which distracts from what is otherwise a well-written paragraph. I would consider replacing or removing some of them.

• Yea, I got rid of all but one, agreed. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Caribbean:

• Para 1: Is "centre national de météorologie" all-lowercase in its original language?

• I made it uppercase for consistency. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 4: "About 140,000 people were mobilizing to assist in preparations, including about 1,600 civil defense units" - Should this be "About 140,000 people mobilized"?

• Thank you, yes. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:01, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More in a bit. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:59, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Preparations - United States:

• Para 1: "The NHC dropped all watches and warnings after Dennis moved inland" - I might be missing something, but why would the NHC drop these watches and warnings if the hurricane still posed a danger inland? Are these storm-surge watches/warnings?

• Great question! At the time, the NHC issued hurricane watches and warnings for coastlines, and local National Weather Service office picked up the types of warnings you'd expect (flood warning, thunderstorm warning, whatnot). There were no storm surge watches/warnings until 2017, and no inland hurricane warnings until this year. I did tweak the wording a bit to: "The NHC dropped all watches and warnings after Dennis weakened to tropical storm status as it moved inland." ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 1: "1.8 million people evacuated in the southeastern United States" - I'd go with "1.8 million people in the southeastern United States evacuated". Otherwise, it might sound like the people evacuated to the southeast US.
• Done. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Para 1: "The Red Cross put dozens of volunteers on standby to go into regions affected by the storm, opening 180 shelters along the gulf coast." - Isn't Gulf Coast capitalized?
• Hah I overcorrected, I changed two instances back to "Gulf Coast". ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Para 2: "Key West Mayor Jimmy Weekley ordered bars in the city to close during the storm." - I might also be missing something, but this seems like something that should happen during a hurricane. (On the other hand, it would be noteworthy if bars typically stayed open during hurricanes there, or if no other businesses were ordered to close).

• Does it feel trivial then? I can remove it if it feels out of place. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  To be honest, yeah, this does seem a bit trivial. I would recommend removing it since ordering businesses to close during a hurricane isn't really unusual. – Epicgenius (talk) 02:39, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Impact:

• Table: If the sources give differing amounts, would it be possible to include the ranges of damage estimates in the "Damage (USD)" column, rather than just a single damage estimate? For example, in the "Jamaica" row, the NOAA source gives an estimate of $31.7 million and the ODPEM source gives an estimate of $34.5 million. The table currently only mentions the latter figure, but the range of damage estimates is actually $31.7–34.5 million.

• I suppose we could do the damage range, but I opted for the higher damage total because ODPEM is an office from Jamaica, so I believe that total is more accurate. The NHC is more accurate when it comes to United States damage totals, but not always about other areas. Does that make sense? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yeah, that makes sense to me. – Epicgenius (talk) 02:39, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Impact - Haiti:

• "Approximately 15,000 people were directly affected by the hurricane" - I think this might benefit from a little clarification, since anyone in the path of the hurricane is likely to be "directly affected" in some way. I assume that this wording means that 15,000 people were displaced or otherwise inconvenienced, if not injured or killed?

• Ugh, I think and debate whether to include this every single time I see the "affected". And it's probably some combination of people who evacuated, or had power outages, or were otherwise negatively affected by the storm. And since I don't know for sure, I removed that sentence. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Impact - Jamaica:

• Para 1: "most power outages were restored within six days" - Power, not power outages, was restored within six days. I know this wasn't your intention, but this wording makes it sound like they got power again, only to experience outages after six days. I'd go with something like "most power outages were resolved within six days".

• Yea I like that "resolved" wording! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More later. – Epicgenius (talk) 02:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Impact - Cuba:

• Para 1: "just before the eye passed over the area, and the anemometer was destroyed" - The comma is not strictly necessary if the anemometer was destroyed just before the eye passed over the area, which I assume is the case.

• Oh, yep, done. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 1: "The hurricane dropped torrential rainfall" - Is it typical to say "dropped ... rainfall"? Usually I hear "caused ... rainfall".

• True, changed to "produced torrential rainfall." ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 2: "Dennis also damaged 360 schools in the province, including 29 were destroyed and in need to be rebuilt" - Not only is there a missing word (the word "that" is needed after "29"), but "in need to be" sounds a bit strange. I'd say "29 that were destroyed and needed to be rebuilt".

• Hmm, obviously if they were destroyed they needed to rebuilt, so I got rid of that last part and simplified. Thanks for pointing that out. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 2: "almost 27,000 hectares (67,000 acres) of agriculture land was destroyed" - Shouldn't this be "...land were destroyed" since "hectares" is plural?

• Eek, yup! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Para 3: "power was halted nationwide, which began to be restored on July 11" - I'd say "power was halted nationwide and began to be restored on July 11". The power halts were not the thing that was being restored; it was the power that was being restored.

• Agreed! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Impact - United States:

• Para 1: "Across southern Florida from Tampa southward to the Keys, Dennis left about 439,600 people without power, while another 322,275 people along the Florida panhandle lost power" - The sentence structure makes it sound like the panhandle is part of southern Florida, which it isn't. I think this should be recast as "Across southern Florida from Tampa southward to the Keys, Dennis left about 439,600 people without power, while across the Florida panhandle, another 322,275 people lost power".
• Para 2: "Damage in the Florida Keys totaled US$6.8 million, mostly related to roofing, electric, and landscaping" - There is probably a missing word after "electric". Is this talking about electrical service? Electrical equipment? Or just power in general?
• Para 2: "for three years the navy ship was upside-down" - If the ship had been upside down for 3 years prior to Dennis, then this should be "for three years the navy ship had been upside-down".
• Para 3: "which struck southern Alabama ten months earlier" - This should be "which had struck...", to be parallel with the phrasing "were still recovering", which is used earlier in the sentence.

Impact - Rest of the Gulf Coast:

• Para 1: "the USS Alabama in Mobile Bay" - The name "Alabama" should be italicized, as is conventional for names of ships.
• Para 2: "Slick roads led to a traffic death in Jasper County.[105] Strong winds damaged a church in Calhoun County.[106]" - Both of these sentences are relatively short, and they should probably be combined, either with one another or with other sentences.

Impact - Other areas:

• Para 1: "Within five days of Dennis's landfall, the structure was refloated and taken to Texas to be repaired, as the connecting pipes on the ocean floor were also repaired." - In the phrase "as the connecting pipes", I would change "as" to "and", because these two things just happened to take place at the same time, rather than this being a cause-and-effect relationship.
• Para 2: "About 55,000 people statewide lost power in the Atlanta area" - "Statewide" might not be necessary here (as the Atlanta area is entirely in Georgia), unless some of these 55,000 people who lost power lived outside the Atlanta area.

More later. – Epicgenius (talk) 15:41, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note

This has been open for three weeks and has yet to pick up a support. Unless it attracts considerable movement towards a consensus to promote over the next four or five days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 00:16, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yea, I totally get that, thanks Gog the Mild (talk · contribs). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:05, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generalissima

• Mark me down for a source review. Will try to get to it over the next couple days. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 23:24, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Big Black River Bridge

Nominator(s): Hog Farm _Talk 19:03, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After Raymond, Grand Gulf, and Lake Providence, here comes the next article in my Vicksburg series. Loring's division of Pemberton's Confederate army had been cut off after the disastrous Battle of Champion Hill. Pemberton, not knowing that Loring had found himself unable to rejoin Pemberton, held the crossing of the Big Black River with John Bowen's elite but decimated division and John Vaughn's brigade of inexperienced conscripts of dubious loyalty. Michael Lawler's men used a dried-up river channel to draw closer to the Confederate lines, and when Lawler's men charge, they hit the part of the line held by Vaughn's conscripts. Vaughn's men don't put up much of a fight, Bowen's troops on the flanks are forced to retreat to avoid being cut off from the river crossing, and it takes about three minutes for the entire Confederate line to collapse. Over 1,700 Confederates are captured, and the Confederate lose their artillery because the horse teams needed to move the guns were left on the wrong side of the river. Pemberton falls back into the Vicksburg campaign and surrenders about a month and a half later. Hog Farm _Talk 19:03, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Don't use fixed px size
  • Removed px size hardcoding. Hog Farm _Talk 14:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Some images are missing alt text
  • Have attempted to add alt text. Hog Farm _Talk 14:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• File:The_Battle_of_Big_Black_River_Bridge,_Harper's_Weekly,_June_20,_1863.jpg: source link is dead
  • This is a known (temporary) issue with the Internet Archive; I think the expectation is that this will be back online soon. Hog Farm _Talk 14:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• File:Big_Black_River_Bridge_Battlefield_Mississippi.jpg: see MOS:COLOUR. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Removed image as I don't think this can be easily made compliant. Hog Farm _Talk 14:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

Hi Hog Farm, my comments:

• Why do we not have the casualties and losses in the infobox when we do have them in the lead and body? Also, are the strengths of the units before the battle known?
  • I haven't seen a good estimate of Union strength at the battle in any of the sources I have consulted for this. I don't know how relevant it is to post casualties when there's no strengths listed in the infobox for proportionality comparisons and the Confederate loss records are so incomplete. Hog Farm _Talk 13:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Fewer than 300 Union soldiers became casualties": Sounds a little odd, consider rephrasing to "The Union army suffered less than 300 casualties"?
  • Done Hog Farm _Talk 18:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "capture" of New Orleans, Louisiana: Link "capture" to "Capture of New Orleans"?
  • Linked Hog Farm _Talk 18:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Consider linking to field of fire?
  • Linked Hog Farm _Talk 18:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Osterhaus replaced by": "Osterhaus was replaced by"?
  • Corrected Hog Farm _Talk 18:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Might we consider adding the DOI and JSTOR ID for Smith 2024?
  • I haven't in the past done this for books, only for journal articles. Is this is a standard practice? Hog Farm _Talk 13:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It isn't yet for non-hard sciences articles but I think it should be. JSTOR IDs and DOIs allow direct access to the source if you're logged in through The Wikipedia Library. ISBNs on the other hand are relatively tougher to access. Matarisvan (talk) 15:32, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Is this book on JSTOR? I thought JSTOR was more for journal articles. I tried to bring up the Wikipedia Library JSTOR but my internet connection is not great at the moment and I couldn't get the library to load properly. My understanding is that doi's are used to point to online documents - would this be helpful for a print hardcopy book? Hog Farm _Talk 01:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Well this is not a deal breaker at all. Adding my support. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 09:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• In Smith 2013, is the first editor Stephen Woodworth or Steven Woodworth? Google Books lists the latter. Guess this is a passing error.
  • This is the same author as Woodworth 2005. Corrected & linked. Hog Farm _Talk 13:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is all from my end. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 07:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Matarisvan: - Thanks for the review! I have one question above. Hog Farm _Talk 18:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UC

A small protest on the use of men as an equivalent for troops, soldiers, forces etc -- we know that at least a small, but very much real, slice of the fighting forces were not covered by that label, before we even start to think about the ones we haven't been able to spot. Per MOS:GNL, gender-neutral language should be used when doing so does not sacrifice precision, and I think there are enough good synonyms here that the guideline should be applied. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 09:48, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've caught all of these. Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: I made two small edits on GNL, but otherwise have no further concerns. As ever, the article is thorough, detailed, accessible and scholarly, and in my view meets the FA criteria soundly. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:08, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A few more:

• During the retreat from Champion Hill: I struggled to get my head around the movements here -- I think I was hampered by ignorance of the directions involved. Do I understand it right that Pemberton and co were retreating westwards, that the main body of the force had crossed the BBR, and that he told a small force to wait behind so that any Union advance wouldn't cut off the opportunity for Loring's division to do likewise?
  • I've tried to clarify this a bit - Loring was cut off during the retreat from the Champion Hill field (trying to cross a creek, but not really detail for the lead of this article), and I've noted later in that Pemberton was falling back westwards when he held the BBR bridgehead. Is this better? Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• an old meander scar: is there such thing as a new meander scar? By their very nature, they have to have a certain antiquity.
  • Removed "old" Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The collapse of this portion of the Confederate line forced the troops on either side to withdraw: possibly ambiguous, grammatically if not by common sense, as to whether we mean "the rest of the Confederate troops" or "both the Union and the Confederates".
  • Rephrased Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• On May 18, the Union army crossed the Big Black River. The surviving Confederate soldiers entered the fortifications at Vicksburg: does this include Loring's troops?
  • Clarified that this is Pemberton's men. Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• the Union military leadership developed the Anaconda Plan, which was a strategy to defeat the Confederate States of America.: I think we generally take as read that military planners seek to defeat their enemies: perhaps add "by blockading it" or something to clarify the anaconda-ness of this particular plan?
  • Added a brief clarification Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• a joint army-navy: MOS:DASH wants an endash in this and similar.
  • Done Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• An attempt to cut Williams's Canal: I wonder whether cut might be misread as "interdict" rather than "build"?
  • I've rephrased to "construct"; I think "build" would be a weird word to describe making a big hole in the ground. Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In late November, about 40,000 Union infantry commanded by Major General Ulysses S. Grant began moving south towards Vicksburg from a starting point in Tennessee.: any idea roughly how far this was?
  • I'm trying to find a source that provides a clean figure for this; no luck so far. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• and was spearheaded by Major General John A. McClernand's XIII Corps troops: troops seems superfluous, unless we mean that it wasn't all of them, in which case I think we need elements of Major General John A. McLernand's XIII Corps or similar.
  • Dropped "troops" Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Any reason why the Vicksburg campaign map is left aligned? MOS:ACCESSIBILITY advises right, for a consistent left margin, unless there's a good reason to vary.
  • I can't think of a particular reason why it's like that, so I've moved that one (and another map later in the article) to right align. Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More to follow. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 19:36, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• the lead elements of Grant's army, McClernand's corps, crossed the river at Bruinsburg, Mississippi.: two comma-ed off phrases are a bit awkward. Suggest "McLernand's corps, which formed the lead element of Grant's army, crossed...", or else putting dashes around "McClernand's corps" instead of commas.
  • I've shuffled the sentence around to address this (hopefully). Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Why doesn't David Dixon Porter get a rank -- almost everyone else seems to?
  • Footnoted (a bit of a non-standard situation). The research for this led me to correct an error in Porter's article. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• McClernand advanced on the Union left with his corps, Sherman and the XV Corps in the center,: whose corps is this? Looks like McClernand's troops are in two places at once.
  • I've tried rephrasing this to clarify - McClernand with XIII Corps on the right, the center was Sherman's XV Corps, and McPherson was on the right with XVII Corps. Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Pemberton decided that Johnston's orders were not compatible with previous directives that he had received from the Confederate president.: any idea what those directives were (and, incidentally, should we name that president?)
  • I've clarified and have name-check Jeff Davis Hog Farm _Talk 21:21, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• forgone utilizing is a tautology: simply forgone. What had Grant done instead?
  • Dropped "utilizing" Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• towards Edwards: suggest the town of Edwards; it reads like a person's name here.
  • Let me look into this a bit further when I get back to my sources; I think it was more of a rail depot/station than anything else at the time. Our article suggests that it wasn't an incorporated town proper until 1871. Hog Farm _Talk 03:52, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've gone with "Edwards Station", which is pretty common in the relevant literature. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• To the south lay Gin Lake, the Confederate right flank was at the lake with the line running north to the Big Black River: first comma needs to be a colon or semicolon, or a full stop. Personally, I'd favour the first.
  • I've gone with a colon. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I know they're comparatively junior, but should we name the commander of the 4th Mississippi Infantry Regiment, as we have for other formations deemed important enough to name-check?
  • Even Bearss' magnificent trilogy, perhaps the most detailed work ever published on this campaign, only mentions the commander of the 4th Mississippi's name at BBR in an order of battle that lists all regimental commanders in the action, so I don't think this would be due detail. I've generally been mentioning the regimental commanders' names when the sources do. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• as Carter L. Stevenson's division: for consistency, would give his rank.
  • Added, although it's a bit annoying as I've had to add an isolated page number from the beginning of the source to support that Stevenson was a Major General
• the East Tennessee region, which was loyal to the Union: would rephrase was loyal to the Union, which most naturally reads as "which had not seceded" rather than "in which most people supported the Union, despite it being part of the Confederacy"
  • Is "heavily pro-Union" better? I'd had "disloyal to the Confederacy", but someone had objected to that phrasing at the A-Class review on the grounds that the Confederacy itself was disloyal. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, but you might want to make absolutely that it was the population rather than the government of the region to which this applied. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 08:02, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Have clarified this further. Hog Farm _Talk 21:21, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• While they were fresh their loyalty to the Confederacy was uncertain: comma needed after fresh, and I would change while to although to remove ambiguity (were they more dependable when they were exhausted?).
  • Done. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Bowen's division was the elite unit of Pemberton's army, but they were exhausted after hard fighting at Port Gibson and Champion Hill and had suffered nearly 1,000 casualties in the latter battle: I think we need a sense of how big this division was to begin with to put that number into context.
  • It took some digging, but I finally found a figure - 4,500 per Smith 2006. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• held the southern portion of the Confederate line and the area where the Jackson Road crossed the line: crossed it?
  • Done. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Lindsey advanced his brigade along the railroad 300 yards (270 m),: might be a BrE thing, but don't you normally give the distance before the direction: 100 miles to the north?
  • Added the direction Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• This advance was accomplished without significant casualties: might consider adjusting significant to many or similar: do we mean "few people died" or "nobody important died"? As a frequent flier around here would ask: what did they signify?
  • Have gone with "many". Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In the 1st Missouri Cavalry (dismounted): I would rewrite the bracketed word as a clause: "which was employed as dismounted infantry"? At the moment, it seems like (dismounted) is part of the name. If it is part of the name, shouldn't it be capitalised?
  • This is how this unit's name usually appears in the sources. For instance, from Smith 2024 p. 136 Bowen sent Colonel Amos C. Riley's 1st Missouri Cavalry (dismounted) [an error; Riley commanded the 1st and 4th Missouri Infantry Regiment (Consolidated)]. Or, more generally, this Google books search. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Strange, but you're right to follow the sources. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 08:03, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• 90 men and the unit's commander, Colonel Elijah Gates, were captured: my overarching point on "men" notwithstanding, here we've implied that Gates was a woman.
  • This has been addressed in the rewriting for GNL. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Two other Confederate steamboats, Charm and Paul Jones, who had been located downstream from the bridge were also burned: I don't think we use who for ships, even if we're going for she.
  • Is "which had been" better? Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I think so. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The 4th Mississippi, one of Vaughn's regiments, and Cockrell's brigade: could this be reworked: it's currently a bit unclear whether we're talking about two units or three.
  • Reordered to have the 4th Mississippi at the end, which I think resolves the ambuguity. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• not report losses: does this mean that they reported that they had suffered none, or that they made no report as to their losses?
  • Have rephrased for clarity. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Should Fred Grant be named as Frederick? We wouldn't talk about Abe Lincoln or Ike Eisenhower in a formal context.
  • I think using "Fred" is appropriate per the sources. See Ballard, pp. 316-317 Fred Grant, the general's twelve-year-old son, strayed too near the river and received a slight wound in the leg. Fred insisted he "had been killed", but he recovered quickly enough his reassured father showed little concern. Smith 2024 p. 367 Fred's enthusiasm was quickly dampened when a Confederate sharpshooter hit him in the leg. Also, I've found and corrected some pretty blatant errors in Fred/Frederick's article as a result of this. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Grant launched significant attacks on May 19 and 22.: another significant where I think we need to distinguish big from important.
  • Is "major" better? Hog Farm _Talk 04:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I think it would be. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Consider linking the West Point Atlas map further up as external media? It looks, to me at least, much clearer than the PD map we already have.
  • I've actually added it as a map (I moved the burned-out bridge map down to the aftermath section to make room) and have removed the EL. The map was on Commons and is I believe PD. (heads up Nikkimaria that something has been added post image review). Hog Farm _Talk 04:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • New map has a dead source link. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Dammit. Are either this (Library of Congress, lower-quality scan from the book, and numbered as map 105 instead of 21) or this (USMA, converted from the original 1960s book map into a more modern jpg) close enough? Hog Farm _Talk 04:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • And yet another LOC version, but with this as map 87. Frustrating that the highest quality version is the one I can't replicate. Hog Farm _Talk 04:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
          • IMO the second would work. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's my lot for now: mostly nit-picks, as ever, but I hope some of them are helpful. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 08:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@UndercoverClassicist: - Thanks for a very detailed review! I've replied above; this led to me finding and correcting issues in the David Dixon Porter and Frederick Dent Grant articles. Hog Farm _Talk 04:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eddie891

I can do a source review here Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 21:28, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Sources all seem high quality and reliable. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 21:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Assuming there's nothing worth adding from the Further reading? I checked a newspaperarchive to see if there was anything super relevant about preservation of the battlefield but didn't find anything. Hoping to head to the library tomorrow just to confirm that there aren't any relevant books missing. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 19:59, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I own a copy of the Fullenkamp further reading source. Those battlefield guides are usually just primary source quotations and then some description about how what you have just read from the participants' writings relates to the stop at the battlefield that you are currently at. I will check tonight after work to make sure there isn't anything useful to add though. I've looked at Grant's Lieutenants (don't remember where; I don't have a copy) before and didn't think it looked useful - it's just biographies of various officers Grant interacted with. I'll try to verify that that isn't going to be useful either, though. Hog Farm _Talk 20:52, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've removed Grant's Lieutenants as it doesn't have a whole lot to say about this battle based on Google Books preview. I've left the guide in for now, although it doesn't have anything worth adding to this article. Hog Farm _Talk 00:31, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks, I'm satisfied with that answer. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:33, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I've just spot-checked some of the citations to Woodworth, Ballard, Smith 2013, Shea and Winschel, and every citation lined up how it should. This makes me very happy :) Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:33, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Finally, I've looked at Schultz The Most Glorious Fourth and Groom Vicksburg, 1863 (which, after skimming, are less academic than I had anticipated), and neither had anything really to offer, and I'm reasonably satisfied that this is a sufficiently comprehensive account. Source review - Pass Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 14:42, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Crisco 1492

• After engaging and defeating Confederate forces in several intermediate battles, Grant's army defeated Lieutenant General John C. Pemberton's Confederates at the decisive Battle of Champion Hill on May 16. - Is it necessary to repeat "Confederate/s" in this sentence?
• The withdrawal became chaotic and 1,751 Confederate soldiers and 18 cannons were captured. The cannons were captured because their teams of horses were erroneously positioned on the other side of the Big Black River. - Suggestion: "The withdrawal became chaotic and 1,751 Confederate soldiers were captured, as were eighteen cannons, their teams of horses were erroneously positioned on the other side of the Big Black River."
• entered the fortifications at Vicksburg - Vicksburg is already linked in the first paragraph
• The Union won the battle, but the fighting at Raymond led Grant to change his plans to swing over towards Jackson, Mississippi, to disperse a Confederate force gathering there. The Confederate commander at Jackson, General Joseph E. Johnston, decided to abandon Jackson. - Any way to avoid repeating Jackson?
• When planning this offensive, Pemberton did not know that Grant had forgone a traditional line of communications during his movement inland. - Did he not have a line of communications, or did he use a non-traditional approach?
• 5,000-man force - Given the above comments, going to highlight this one.
• strongly man - Same as above
• Early on the morning of May 17, McClernand's troops advanced through Edwards and then encountered the Confederate line. His advance was led by the division of Brigadier General Eugene Carr. Carr's lead brigade was led by Brigadier General William P. Benton; the 33rd Illinois Infantry Regiment led the way as skirmishers. - Three leds in two sentences
• two of Garrard's regiments, the 49th Indiana Infantry Regiment and 69th Indiana Infantry Regiment - Suggestion: two of Garrard's infantry regiments, the 49th Indiana and 69th Indiana
• three regiments – the 11th Wisconsin Infantry Regiment, the 21st Iowa Infantry Regiment, and the 23rd Iowa Infantry Regiment – - Any way to avoid repeating regiment four times in one sentence?
• Any reason for the two spaces after the periods? It's not consistent, which is why I ask.

Overall, very well done.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 20:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

• "After a day of fighting, the Confederates were defeated, and Grand Gulf was abandoned on May 3": suggest "... and abandoned Grand Gulf on May 3". The active voice makes it unambiguous who is doing the abandoning.
• "McClernand advanced on the Union left with his XII corps": the map in the "Prelude" section shows the XIII corps on the left.
• "the fighting at Raymond led Grant to change his plans to swing over towards Jackson, Mississippi": suggest rephrasing: I initially parsed this as saying his plan was to swing towards Jackson, but he changed his mind. Perhaps "the fighting at Raymond led Grant to change his plans; instead of X, he swung over towards Jackson, Mississippi", inserting whatever X was.
• "The Union took the city and then destroyed military facilities within it." I think you could cut "then".
• "the Confederate right flank was at the lake with the line running north to the Big Black River, which made a bend east of the bridge across the Big Black River". Suggest "which made a bend east of the bridge across it".

That's all I can see to complain about. A fine article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:01, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Busbridge War Memorial

Nominator(s): Harry Mitchell (talk) 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is another Lutyens war memorial. Probably the last of his memorials in England that has enough coverage for an FA, but then I thought that about the Cenotaph and and I've managed to bring two others through FAC since then! This one is in a tiny village in what (at the turn of the 20th century) was a rural part of Surrey, to the south west of London but it tells an interesting story. Lutyens became a nationally renowned architect, responsible for an array of famous buildings, but his career kick-started in Busbridge when he was in his 20s and the village contains several of his works. Indeed, it was here that he first heard the term "cenotaph", a term he indelibly linked with war memorials, so it was only fitting that he should design the village's war memorial.

I created the article way back in 2016 but I've always felt there was more to say. A recent trip to Busbridge inspired me to see if I could "finish" it. I'm indebted to @Carcharoth, KJP1, and SchroCat: for their help and advice, including digging up some difficult-to-find sources. It's not a long article, but I think it tells the story comprehensively. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Some images are missing alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria thank you! Remiss of me. Now added to the other two images. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:50, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Steelkamp

• "7-metre (23-foot) tall" -> "7-metre-tall (23-foot)"
  • I see why that might be seen as desirable (and thanks for the template magic!) but it interrupts the sentence flow without clarifying anything that is likely to be misunderstood so I'd rather not unless it's a dealbreaker.
    • I'd rather it this way because 7-metre-tall is a compound adjective, so it shouldn't be separated, and this seems to be the specific situation where adj=mid should be used in Template:Convert.
      • Fair enough. I think it's more jarring this way but you are technically correct the best kind of correct. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:54, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "and was upgrade to" -> "and was upgraded to"
• I recommend linking Surrey upon first mention in the body. Also, I recommend linking Berkshire and Somerset.
  • Surrey done. I don't think Somerset or Berkshire are directly relevant enough to require links in such quick succession to the war memorials (which are linked) located in those counties.
• "and possessing "the same over-developed sense of volumetric relations as" The Cenotaph." -> "and possessing "the same over-developed sense of volumetric relations as" the Cenotaph."
• A non-breaking space should be put between "H. M." as per MOS:INITIALS.
• "he unveiled several war memorials in the county" -> "he unveiled several other war memorials in the county".
• "national anthem." Can God Save the King be linked?
• There are several instances of brackets being used where I think commas would be better. I recommend these changes:
  • "Historic England (the government body responsible for listing) recognised Lutyens's war memorials" -> "Historic England, the government body responsible for listing, recognised Lutyens's war memorials"
  • "The cross was unveiled by General Sir Charles Monro (the colonel of the local regiment) on 23 July 1922" -> "The cross was unveiled by General Sir Charles Monro, the colonel of the local regiment, on 23 July 1922"
• The lead says this: " the relationship led to many commissions for Lutyens for country houses in the early days of his career." But in the body, the part mentioning Gertrude Jekyll came after the part about the country houses. Was Lutyen's relationship with Jekyll really the reason why Lutyen had many commissions for country houses?

  It's a little complicated without getting too far off-topic. He already had his own practice and was designing country houses, but his career really took off after Munstead Wood, from which he earnt a string of commissions for Jekyll's friends and extended family. This is the point that he became fashionable, though it's hard to tell whether that would have happened had he not met Jekyll. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:57, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Either way, the lead should be changed to be consistent with the body or vice versa. Steelkamp (talk) 15:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @HJ Mitchell: I still think this should be changed so that the lead is consistent with the body. The lead could be changed to say "Lutyens built his early reputation on designing country houses. His connection with Busbridge began in the 1880s when he partnered with Gertrude Jekyll, a local artist and gardener who lived at nearby Munstead Wood." This then does not imply something that the body does not. Steelkamp (talk) 03:53, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those are all the comments I have. Steelkamp (talk) 10:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Steelkamp Sorry to keep you waiting. I've made just about all the suggested changes except where I've commented above. Happy to chat if there's anything else. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:11, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi Steelkamp, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:09, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  After my one comment above is addressed, I will support. Steelkamp (talk) 03:54, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF

• "and he spent much of his time from 1917 onwards on memorialising its casualties." - not seeing where the source specifically references 1917
• "The memorial was designated a Grade II listed building on 1 February 1991." - citation placement issue; the following citation is [17] which doesn't mention this, although it is supported by [1] which is cited later in the paragraph

Good work; I expect to support. Hog Farm _Talk 01:25, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Supporting; not much to complain about here. Hog Farm _Talk 01:47, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Tim riley

Excellent article. A few minor quibbles:

• "His connection to Busbridge" – unexpected choice of preposition: usually, a house is connected to the gas mains, but a person is connected with somewhere or something.
• "and was upgrade to Grade II*" – upgraded?
• "led to multiple other commissions" – I don't think you need the "other", which looks a bit odd
• "The war memorial in Busbridge was one of several by Lutyens …" – and presumably still is.
• "he executed multiple designs for Jekyll's sister-in-law" – I'm not sure how one designs a sister-in-law. It might be less Frankensteinian if you changed "for" to "commissioned by", "on behalf of", or some such.
• "a lozenge-shaped tapered shaft" – chancing my arm, and quite prepared to be told I'm talking rubbish, but I thought a lozenge was shaped like the symbol of diamonds in a pack of cards, which the picture of the memorial doesn't resemble.
• "by The Reverend H. M. Larner" – a lower case t is usual for "the Reverend" in mid-sentence.
• "all are Grade II listed" – no real danger of your being misunderstood, but it might be as well to add "three memorials", lest someone determined to misunderstand think it was the three people who were listed.

That's all from me. I hope some, at least, of these comments are of use. Tim riley talk 13:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tim riley, @Hog Farm Apologies for the delay. I think I've addressed all your comments. Please let me know if not! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Still not convinced by his designing a-sister-in-law nor what is lozenge-shaped. Tim riley talk 22:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tim riley I've worded the sister-in-law; open to further wordsmithing. We share an understanding of what a lozenge is, but I assure you the memorial is lonzenge-shaped. Possibly slightly squat but it has four roughly diagonal sides. It's more evident towards the top because of the tapering. The photos we have on Commons (including some of mine) don't do it justice. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK – that will do me fine on both points. Very pleased to add my support for this top-notch article. Meets all the FA criteria in my view. Rather sad if this is the last of Harry's articles on war memorials we'll be seeing here. Tim riley talk 22:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Tim. It's probably the last Lutyens (unless I do some of the memorials abroad) but it won't be the last war memorial. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good! Tim riley talk 22:18, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Carcharoth

Only a few comments:

• I would quibble with "the Cenotaph in London, which he named after a garden seat at Munstead Wood" in the lead. Learning of the term 'cenotaph' and using it elsewhere is not the same as naming something after a garden seat. Would also quibble with the stained glass windows being said to "commemorate the war" (slightly clumsy phrasing - see also next comment).
  • I don't think it's inaccurate. It's a bit of an oversimplification, but for the sake of concision in the lead.
• Saying "a pair of stained-glass windows by Archibald Keightley Nicholson" mis-represents what is there. There are six 1919 stained glass windows by Nicholson, forming three pairs. One pair is for "the war" (the one you describe). The second pair is for two Old Shirburnians who fell in the war. The third pair is for Charles Henry Tisdall (another of those who fell).
  • It's not a misrepresentation to say that a pair exists when three pairs exist; the others are of limited relevance to the war memorial. Nonetheless, I've added in a note to be clear.
• Saying "locations of much fighting during the war" for Amiens Cathedral seems slightly odd. It overlooked the Somme battlefields, and would have been familiar to veterans who passed through or were garrisoned in or near there. Scapa Flow could also be slightly better explained. This is a case maybe of 'explain properly' rather than too briefly?
  • I was never very happy with this form of words but I can't come up with anything better and even that half a sentence is getting away from the subject at hand so I've culled it.
• Where can a curious reader go to read the 42 names? (Online, not on the church wall!) The names on the church wall include Francis McLaren who (as you note) is buried in the churchyard with his own memorial. I am unsure if McLaren (who was not a local, but married into the Jekyll family - a point that may be worth mentioning) is in the roll of honour for Busbridge (it looks like he met the inclusion criteria for the local war memorial committee that would have decided such things).
• Given that the memorial does not list the names, arguably the book of remembrance in the church is 'part' of the memorial, so might there be a case for including File:WWI book of remembrance in Busbridge Church (cropped).jpg? It is not the most visual picture, but would add to the article, IMO (the stained glass windows are shown in the church article, and we really should have a proper listing of Nicholson's windows).
• Can anything useful be used or cited to (or found elsewhere) from this page where the decision making process is outlined? Warning: the link to the 'names' has been cybersquatted. The names are available here (IWM Memorials Register). Surely there must be more details on the approach made to Lutyens to design the memorial? Are all the sources silent on this?
• One of the names of those the memorial commemorates is that of the 7th Earl of Shannon, Richard Bernard Boyle. No idea what the connection is with Busbridge. He inherited his father's earldom at the age of nine, and died aged 19 just over ten years later (EDIT: Apparently, at the time of his death his address was a house called 'Trusca' in Ramsden Road near Busbridge, towards Godalming. His younger brother [the next earl, aged 16 or 17] was in India in 'Havelock House' and was named in the probate as adminstrating the estate's affairs).

That last point was a bit tangential, but I mention it in case there is anything useful in a suitable source (it looks to me as if the inclusion criteria were quite broad here, but I doubt anyone has written about that - it is not entirely clear if it was a parish war memorial or a more broadly defined 'local' war memorial for those with connections with the area, or simply relatives in the area). Carcharoth (talk) 05:28, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Harry. Just a reminder that there are still comments to address above. Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:12, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding some supplementary comments to make my position clearer: (1) The Earl of Shannon comment is tangential (no sources talk about any of those the memorial commemorates as far as I can see), so please disregard this. (2) The sentence in the lead about Munstead Wood would be better if it stopped at the word "London". The origin of the name of the London Cenotaph is not needed in the lead of this article. (3) More relevant is the military service of the rector at the unveiling (for one of the clergy dedicating a local war memorial to have been a military chaplain serving in the war, and with direct experience, may have been relatively rare, it certainly adds context): The Rector, Rev. Larner, served as British Civil Chaplain in Calais from 1915-1916 and as chaplain to the forces in France and Belgium 1917-18. Full name and roles: "Rev Capt. Henry Meredith Larner" (c.1866-1950). It seems his appointment for the period 1917 to 1918 was temporary: see ACAD entry. Carcharoth (talk) 13:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies. I see that the Larner military connection is already there! I somehow missed that... The point I am trying to make (a bit clumsily) is that the military and war service aspects are not in the lead, while Munstead Wood is mentioned twice. Lutyens is mentioned in the lead seven times. The lead feels at times more like a paean to Lutyens, rather than a summary of the purpose and history of this war memorial. I would personally add the number of FWW names in the church (42) to the lead, add the name of Nicholson, maybe add the name of McLaren, and say more about the unveiling (e.g. that buglers from the Grenadier Guards were there, which is actually really fascinating - they were likely there because some of the men commemorated were from the Grenadier Guards, not, again, that anyone will have written about that - at least not yet). It is very likely, IMO, that the Grenadier Guard buglers were there, in part, because Lieutenant-Colonel L R Fisher-Rowe was among those being commemorated. It is awkward, because the point of such memorials is to commemorate all equally, so mentioning individual names in the Wikipedia article about the memorial feels wrong (but many of our articles on war memorials do just this, listing the 'famous' people named on the memorial or whom the memorial is intended for). There is a listing of names here and I am glad I looked at that because it turns out that a second person that this memorial commemorates has a Wikipedia article, namely Harry Pennell. And FWIW, you can see here an artwork of Sir Edward George Jenkinson one of the bereaved (his son John Jenkinson is commemorated here). Sir Edward would not have been in the crowd at the unveiling (he died in 1919), but you get the idea (e.g. Charles Hodson, Baron Hodson was the younger brother of Hubert Bernard Hodson (one of those named here), and one of the sisters of the Hodsons was Catherine Mary Maskew Hodson who was the wife of Harry Pennell - it appears that like McLaren, Pennell appears on this memorial because of having married into a local family). I do think mentioning Pennell can be justified (it is the sort of thing that would be of interest to those reading the article), and maybe even mentioning Fisher-Rowe (e.g. from this Western Front Association article, Fisher-Rowe features as one of "nine Lieutenant Colonels [...] killed during the course of the battle" (the Battle of Neuve Chapelle) because of the Grenadier Guards connection. What you really want is a source saying why the Grenadier Guards buglers were there, but that doesn't seem to exist. It is also worth making the point (as some readers will assume that all those named died abroad) that three of those named are buried in the churchyard where this memorial is erected: McLaren, W. T. Knight, and Robert John Potter. We have photos available of all three headstones: 1, 2, 3). What I am trying to get at is that a reader stood in front of the war memorial, in the same churchyard, and reading this Wikipedia article would want to be told this, so they have the additional context - possibly in a footnote if you think it would disturb the flow of the main article. I do get the argument that for this wider context, the article on the church itself would be a better location for text and photos relating to this, but war graves and war memorial content feels more appropriate here in this article. In essence, I am questioning why there is so much content relating to Lutyens, Jekyll and Munstead Wood, compared to text about the purpose of the memorial and its place in the wider memorial landscape. I do think, given the 'group value' that includes the church itself, you could include more on the FWW graves and the memorial windows. I have gone on a bit (sorry). Will stop there. Carcharoth (talk) 14:58, 3 November 2024 (UTC) Edited to add bit more. Carcharoth (talk) 21:54, 3 November 2024 (UTC) [reply]

In a nutshell, there's so much about Lutyens because that's why this memorial is notable. It's why it's grade ii* listed and has a detailed list entry and why the majority of the source material is about Lutyens (four of the books are biographies of Lutyens, two discuss it in passing, and Pevsner only mentions it in relation to Lutyens's other works). Here's a fairly random example of a churchyard war memorial by an unknown architect. If Busbridge had been designed by an unknown/local architect, it probably wouldn't even be notable, much less a viable FA candidate. It doesn't even merit a mention in any of the books I have on British memorials generally, even Borg and Boorman who discuss hundreds of them including some fairly obscure ones. So I will definitely look at some of your suggested inclusions but the nutshell if the nutshell is that the article reflects the source material as it is, not as we wish it would be. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a very fair summary of why this article (as you acknowledged in the nomination) is on the edge of what is possible for a featured article. Some might argue that this is better done as a series of well-referenced list entries. Indeed, I did try and look at the other 15 Lutyens 'War Crosses' (you use the phrase "one of 15 crosses Lutyens designed") that are presumably in List of works by Edwin Lutyens (which you have as a 'See also' in this article), but it is surprisingly difficult to identify which the 15 'war crosses' are from that list... My wider point was more that when writing about war memorials like this, as well as the general "why we care about Lutyens and his war memorials" spiel (which those reading your series of articles will be very familiar with by now), what occurred to me was that what is really needed is something explaining why we care (and still care) about war memorials (or more specifically, what it was about local war memorials in Britain)? You do cover this with your line "In the aftermath of the First World War (1914–1918) and its unprecedented casualties, thousands of war memorials were built across Britain." and the line "an eloquent witness to the tragic impacts of world events on this community". But then you don't say anything about the diverse range of types within those thousands of memorials, and who erected them. The real context only comes when you read an article such as World War I memorials. There are lines from that article and its references that (suitably rewritten) would really enhance this article (and others like it):

"In Britain and Australia, local community leaders were expected to organise local committees to create war memorials. Britain had a strong tradition of local government, and mayors, council chairmen or similar leaders would usually step forward to establish a memorial committee."

What you don't explicitly state anywhere in the article is that the origin of this memorial was supported by the church who provided the land on which it was erected. It was not erected in a public space such as the village green, but within the consecrated environment of the churchyard (in some villages, this would have caused problems relating to different Christian denominations, but clearly that issue was overcome here, or not a factor). And in mentioning the location within the churchyard you can mention the other memorials within the church's space (the three FWW graves and the memorial windows and so on). That it was part of an explicit scheme driven by the church. This makes it different from Mells War Memorial (on a public road) and Wargrave War Memorial (on a donated piece of land on the village green). This is a key point of difference which is not emphasised enough, nor referred to explicitly, in the current article. The other point of difference is that this is not a regimental memorial, or a workplace memorial, or a county memorial, it is a local (parish) memorial. You also need something in the lead explicitly stating that the memorial was to the dead of this village, as currently the phrase "the colonel of the local regiment" means people might think this is a regimental memorial. It is nice that a photo of the unveiling is here - probably not possible to obtain a freely licensed version of that, sadly. Maybe that page can be an external link? BTW, you mentioned Borg (1988) and Boorman (1991), and I know you use more recent sources, but so much has been written in the last 20 years. Is there nothing you have that would help the reader get a sense for what memorials like this meant to the communities that erected them? A general line that following their erection, such memorials became the centre of subsequent commemoration, whether personal or in the form of community events such as Armistice Day silences and services? On the unveiling itself, does the newspaper article you cite (from The Surrey Advertiser) explicitly say that the crowd included the families of the fallen soldiers? Do you leave that unsaid because it is so obvious, or because no sources explicitly state it? Carcharoth (talk) 18:06, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC

Putting down a marker for now. - SchroCat (talk) 06:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support on prose following my PR checks and the additional work done since. The only query I would have on a further readthrough is that you link First World War, but not Second World War; is that a deliberate choice? - SchroCat (talk) 10:10, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Spotchecks not done

• Why is NHLE linked every time but Historic England not?

• Ranges should use endashes, including in titles

• How are you ordering Bibliography? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:09, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nikki, many thanks for taking a(nother!) look. The bibliography was supposed to be alphabetical but I put a later addition in the wrong place, now fixed! Dash also fixed. The NHLE citations are produced by {{NHLE}}; apparently there's a "fewer links" option but that's actually "no links". HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Airship

A high-class article which I can support off the bat. Just a couple of comments:

• Maybe just note the dates of WWI at its first mention in the body?
  • Done for now but there's potential confusion with the dates on the memorial.
• Do we know who commissioned this particular memorial?
  • Unfortunately we know very little about how it came to be. These things were often not recorded in small villages or the recirds have been lost.
• I would switch the ordering of the second and third paragraphs of the "History" section, because the discussion of what the different "listing" classifications mean in the current third paragraph will reveal more about the actual listings in the current second.
• If the Abinger Common memorial is of similar design and nearby, maybe it's worth mentioning in the body?

Otherwise, very nice and moving work. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:19, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Harry ? Gog the Mild (talk) 00:07, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am still working on this. Two quick replies to Airship above. I'll be back but it might be Sunday. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:09, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Harry ? Gog the Mild (talk) 16:44, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

La Isla Bonita

Nominator(s): Christian (talk) 16:33, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about one of American singer Madonna's most iconic and known songs, "La Isla Bonita". Having nominated this article previously, and having read the comments left by other users, I went source by source, making sure everything mentioned is properly cited. Christian (talk) 16:33, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Review from Hurricanehink

Support. As a musician familiar with this song, I figured I'd review it, due to having an FAC of my own.

• She also said: "[Pat and I] both think that we were Latin in another life [...] [because] Latin rhythms often dominate our uptempo compositions". - seeing as previously Pat was introduced as Patrick Leonard, perhaps the name should be Patrick here for consistency, especially since it's in a bracket.Done

• Did you fix this? It still says She also said: "[Pat and I] both think that we were Latin in another life ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• What about this? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:24, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Thoughts on this? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:29, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "In 2014, while working on her thirteenth studio album Rebel Heart (2015) with producer Diplo, Madonna recorded a dubplate of "La Isla Bonita" with new lyrics that referenced trio Major Lazer.[15] This version premiered in March 2015 on BBC Radio 1Xtra." - I had to look up what a dubplate is... seems like this version is for vinyl release, right? I think a lot more people are aware of vinyl records. Either way, it sounds like it's a new recorded version, correct? If so, are the new lyrics in the form of a new verse, or is it just new vocals? This part comes out of left field and I'm not sure what to make of it. Shouldn't the dubplate version also be included under "Track listing and formats"?
• Done I aditionally changed the mention to the Composition and Lyrics section

• Should this get a mention under "Track listing and formats"? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't found any sources mentioning a release that merits being under the forementioned section, just YouTube and SoundCloud links.

Isn't digital release a format? It just seems odd this version of the song isn't included in this section. ♫ Hurricanehink (

It is not on itunes/spotify/amazon music; like I mentioned, it is only available on YouTube and soundcloud, and there are many links, and none from an official source.

Yea but Youtube and Soundcloud both cound as release format, don't they? Also, it seems like the remix version is available from the Madonna channel, which is considered the official Madonna channel on YouTube, having almost all of her stuff. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:29, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The dubplate Diplo Remix is not included on neither Madonna or Diplo's official YouTube Channel.

talk) 21:24, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The song is set in the key of C♯ minor, with Madonna's voice spanning between G3 to C5." - because of the key signature, those notes should be G#3 and C#5. I appreciate you including this information, however.

  Done

• If you're going to be linking to the notes though, it should be linked to G# and C#, not G and C respectively. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Not a complaint, but I also really appreciated the balanced reviews of the song, plus its place in Latin music history in the US.
• "and became the most requested video in the channel's history for a record-breaking 20 consecutive weeks." - was that for TRL? How did people request the video on MTV pre-internet? This was a bit before my time.

  That's how/what the source mentions, that it was the most requested. I tried looking for sources that specify how it was requested (my guess is that people usually phoned the channels) but didn't find any valid sources.

• Yea I see this repeated in a lot of sources, but I don't see any clarification. No huge deal. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "As of 2018, it is one of her most viewed music videos on YouTube." - what about 6 years later? Or I'm guessing you might not have an updated source, no biggie if that's the case.
• "La Isla Bonita" has been included on eight of Madonna's concert tours: Who's That Girl (1987), the Girlie Show (1993), Drowned World (2001), Confessions (2006), Sticky & Sweet (2008–2009), Rebel Heart (2015–2016), Madame X (2019–2020), and Celebration (2023–2024). On the first one, she wore a Spanish cabaret dress, and was joined by her backup singers Niki Haris, Donna De Lory, and Debra Parson. - just doing a random spotcheck here, but the references here are from 1987 and 1988, so how could those references cite the rest of the tours? Perhaps a source for the songs from Madonna's concert tours? Or otherwise a grouped citation?

  I could cite the tour's program, which mentions the vocalists; it does not, however, specify their participation on the performance.

• Then perhaps just a lumped citation for each tour? Similar to how you have the note saying "attributed to multiple references". ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• What about this one? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:24, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Hurricanehink:! Just checking back! I quite personally like how this section looks/is structured; lumping citations for each tour, I believe would causeemore notes than necessary.--Christian (talk) 15:45, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind how the section is structured, but there isn't a citation that proves "La Isla Bonita" has been included on eight of Madonna's concert tours. It's implied that the song's appearance is in refs 103 and 104, but that's not the case. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:29, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All in all a great read, and I'm shocked no one else has commented yet! Let me know if you have any questions about these comments. Cheers - ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your great comments @Hurricanehink:--Christian (talk) 16:37, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Few replies. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:30, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let me see if how I've left it works @Hurricanehink:--Christian (talk) 18:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just checking how you're doing about my last few comments? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:40, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chrishm21 ? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:45, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Hurricanehink:! Just got back home from a trip so I hadn't got the chance to log in. I have included the citations that mention the song's inclusion on the mentioned concert tours. Let me know--Christian (talk) 14:28, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to support now. I just fixed the one comment on my own, the one about linking Patrick Leonard, and changing the quote from [Pat and I] to [Patrick and I]. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:59, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note

As per the instructions at the top of WP:FAC, please refrain from using graphics like {{done}} as they slow down the page load time. FrB.TG (talk) 08:38, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Three weeks in and just the single general support. Unless this nomination makes significant further progress towards a consensus to promote over the next five or six days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:37, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• File:Madonna_-_La_Isla_Bonita.ogg needs a more substantial FUR, particularly purpose of use

• The FUR for File:La_Isla_Bonits_screenshot.jpg indicates that it is replaceable - if that's the case, why do we need a non-free image? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:04, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Nikkimaria:! Thank you for your comments; both files are meant to showcase the mentioning of the San Pedro line, and Madonna's Flamenco dancer character from the video--Christian (talk) 14:30, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In both cases the rationale should be elaborated in the FUR template on the image description page. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:21, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Nikkimaria:! Let me know if how I've mentioned on the image talk page is correct.--Christian (talk) 01:03, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't quite follow the change you've made on the second - is it replaceable, or is it necessary to illustrate what you've said it's illustrating? And I'm not seeing any changes on the first? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:10, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is is replaceable, but I mentioned why this particular screenshot was used. If it were to be replaced, it should first be discussed on the article's talk page. Same for the audio file; I explained the purpose on the section it's used. Let me if it works @Nikkimaria:! Christian (talk) 01:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, following corrections. Vera (talk) 21:05, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apoxyomenus

• Hi, article overall looks good at first glance. Here are some points from a quick view,

The Massachusetts Daily Collegian | It is a student-newspaper, and not sure if is enough reliable to use it.

Charts: West Germany (GfK) (weekly) vs West Germany (Official German Charts), you should use one only. Or GFK or Official German Charts to keep consistensy. The same goes to Iceland (RÚV) while in ref's parameter RÚV is italicized. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 00:03, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All fixed. Let me know @Apoxyomenus Christian (talk) 17:38, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good! Article looks fine to me. Support nomination. Cheers --Apoxyomenus (talk) 22:56, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review & spot-check

Some sources throw a "CS1 maint: others in cite AV media (notes)" error. There are a number of sources saying Billboard or Music & Media but linking https://www.worldradiohistory.com/ and should explain this, and Billboard needs no ISSN. What make https://chrisbungostudios.com/, http://www.chartsinfrance.net/Alizee/news-66412.html, https://www.logotv.com/news/bdtywh/madonnas-55-best-videos-in-honor-of-her-55th-birthday and https://infodisc.fr/Chanson_Certifications.php reliable sources? Does Los 40 need italics or other formatting? Wondering if "Chow, Victoria (2004). Madonna. Metro Media Publishers. ISBN 1-904756-12-3." is a reliable source, and AllMusic. "Consumption and Spirituality" is unused. Google Books needs no archive links. Does "Madonna: The Rolling Stone Files" not have an author? Spot-check of this version:

• 1 Need a quote for 1985. I also think not all of the content is on these two pages.

Page 40 of Madonna: A Biography by Madonna [Mentions the Virgin tour and the year 1985, and flows into '...Madonna was already into her next project that fall, writing and recording for her third studio album, True Blue'

• 2 Does not say that the victory tour was in 1984

Per Victory Tour article.

I think it's better to omit the year, then. We can't rely on other Wikipedia articles as sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a source too back up the year of the tour @Jo-Jo Eumerus:.

* 42 Does not mention Ed Schrodt.

Ed Schrodt reviews 'La Isla Bonita' on Slant Magazine's ranking, ref. 43

Where does it say "Ed"? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's Paul Schrodt, my bad. Again, in the article; the first songs have the name and lastname of the author who's reviewing them (Sal Cinquemani, Eric Henderson, Paul Schrodt and so on) In the case of 'La Isla Bonita' (no. 15 on the ranking), it clearly lists Schrodt as the last name of the reviewer Schrodt = Paul Schrodt

• 56 Where is "On March 21, 1987" and "and one of the most added songs on radio stations"

Lean on Me' hits no. 1 for the 2nd time, by Paul Grein; ['Madonna's 'La Isla Bonita' is the new top entry on this week's Hot 100], dated March 21, 1987

Does that date really reference the debut, rather than the publication of the article? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've added an additional source

Still not getting it. Perhaps a quote would help. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry but what is it you don't get? It's clearly in ref 56 (The week of March 21, 1987) in the original unarchived link, number 49, it says the word 'New' next to the song's title. La Isla Bonita entered the chart, was a new addition to the chart... in the week of March 21, 1987 Same for ref 57 ('Lean on Me'); 'La Isla Bonita' is the top new entry on this week's Hot 100 at No. 49; the issue belongs to the week of March 21, 1987, therefore indicating the song entered the Hot 100 chart in the week of March 21, 1987. I did deleted the 'most added to radio stations' part, as nowhere in the sources does it mention that.

The radio thing was the problem. If it's gone, this one's resolved. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:54, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

* 66 This should be flagged so that it shows the archived link. It's not on place 58?

Sources taken from chart template.

* 76 OK

• 77 OK
• 82 OK
• 85 Need a quote or something.
• 108 Need a quote or something.

Cite AV Media

• 109 Need a quote or something.

Cite AV Media

'fraid that the photo is too small to make out the date. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:54, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of which one? @Jo-Jo Eumerus: Are the others OK?--Christian (talk) 14:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• 111 Need a quote or something from 110.
• 154 Need a quote or something.

* 158 Even accessing both sources, I don't get everything.

The AllMusic link -which by the way is a perfectly valid source used on multiple music-related articles- is that of the Mexican tour edition of Alizee's album; in the tracklisting section, it clearly mentions 'La Isla Bonita'

I remember that for a while, AllMusic was considered to be WP:USERGENERATED which is why I always wonder. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AllMusic is used in multiple music-related FAs. See 4, Fearless, 1989, Holy Wood, and many more

• 162 This says nothing about leaks or anything untoward.

Native Spanish speaker here; ['la web de fans de la cantante, Breatheheavy, acaba de sacar a la luz = The singer's fansite, Breateheavey, leaked online']

• 175 What does this support?

My bad, it supports the Super Mix Green RSD Exclusive 2019 release

• 178 Where is "Flanders"?

Flanders, the dutch-speaking northern portion of Belgium; per chart-template configuration it shows up like that

I worry that this is a bit WP:SYNTH Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's how the chart template is programmed, so I don't see an isse. (See the forementioned featured articles)

• 186 Need someone who can read Japanese to verify.

* 196 OK

• 205 Pretty sure this source doesn't say "30000 exactly".

It doesn't mention the number, but it does mention the single was certified gold; 30000 was the amount of copies a single needes to sell/ship to be certified gold here in Spain

OK, but in that case it should say "at least 30000" Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, per chart-template configuration it cannot be written/pointed out like that.

I don't think the chart-template configuration justifies writing it out like that. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See forementioned featured articles I've linked before. If you believe it should be specified differently, a discussion should be created in the template page.

Bit many source/text disagreements if this article needs to be watched for fabricated content (per FrB.TG's note at Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Image and source check requests). Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:45, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've left some comments. I must digress a little and ask if it's really necessary to add quotes for the Harvard citations. I've looked into other featured articles and never once did I encounter this. I look forward to your answer @Jo-Jo Eumerus:--Christian (talk) 15:04, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I meant quotes or screenshots or photos here (not in the article) so that I can verify the content. For spotchecks I generally want to see everything for myself. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:28, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You want screenshots/photos... of the sources? @Jo-Jo Eumerus:--Christian (talk) 16:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. The relevant pages, at least. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have posted a link to the Mary Cross (in fact, the most relevant book sources are linked on the 'Literary sources' section) , and found a new one for the Spain chart position -I was not able to access the Salaverri book. For the Cite AV media ones, shall I post the link to the releases sleeves? Let me know if it works. @Jo-Jo Eumerus:--Christian (talk) 18:20, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The usual ways is by either uploading a screenshot or photo to Google Drive and posting a link here, or by emailing them to me. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will get back to you with the other sources in a bit @Jo-Jo Eumerus:--Christian (talk) 14:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Keep in mind that I'll be busy updating my own articles in these weeks, so I might not respond immediately. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 15:08, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New comments @Jo-Jo Eumerus:--Christian (talk) 15:59, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

'fraid that it's not clear wh

Benjamin F. McAdoo

Nominator(s): Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 14:57, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Benjamin Franklin McAdoo Jr. was the first Black licensed architect in the state of Washington. He had a long and productive career, featuring work in the Seattle area, Jamaica, and Washington, D.C. He also (unsuccessfully) attempted to run for the Washington state legislature. I had a very fun time writing this article, and hope that people enjoy reading it! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 14:57, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review from PMC

Already did my GA review with an eye to this being a FAC in future, but will have another read through. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:23, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Decided to go with a source review since I already read a bunch for the GAN. Sourcing is based on newspapers, academic journals, magazines, and publications by non-profits. No concerns about reliability of any of them. Formatting is consistent, organisation is clear.

Nitpicks:

• Drosendahl is missing the website or publishing organization or what have you
• Refs where the date is unavailable like Houser and Michelson 2 should use |date=n.d..
• These 2 refs and Williams also don't have retrieval dates
• Why is Michaelson 2 sfn'd as PCAD when we have an author name?

I did some spot checking at the GAN, which was all addressed, but I'll poke at a few more since I'm here.

• Cottrell-Crawford & Heuser 2023 - text with refs to this source are supported by the source
• Drosendahl 2016 - supports the building of the Des Moines library, which isn't in Shaping Seattle, so not redundant
  • Did the firm complete any other notable projects? The Shaping Seattle source doesn't mention any. If there aren't any, I think it might be somewhat redundant to say they went on to construct other projects - if the firm survived for 20 years, surely they were doing architectural work during that time.
• PCAD/Michaelson 2 good
• Mahmoud 2022 no issues here

No rush on responding, cheers! ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Premeditated Chaos: Good call on the Drosendahl; fixed everything else too. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:39, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Passes my source review. (I made a slight tweak to the Des Moines sentence, but feel free to revert if you don't like it). ♠PMC♠ (talk) 18:19, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Lead image is missing alt text

Also, not an image comment, but I would suggest a review for MOS issues. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:47, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SnowFire

Nice work. Usual disclaimer goes here that these comments are suggestions, not demands. A few comments:

• He became interested in architecture, motivated by his belief in [[Right to housing|housing as a human right]]

Not sure this is the best phrasing. Is this from the Mahmoud article? Because it writes "He was very concerned about human rights…. Not only did he believe in fair housing, he felt that he should participate in fair housing." I'm not sure that's quite the same thing, and the Right To Housing article talks about it as being a 1990s concept that would come later. He's clearly someone who did believe in affordable housing, but I'm not sure if the current phrasing is the best way to express that, unless there's another source tying this connection together more clearly. (EDIT: I see that you added this because PMC recommended it in the GA review. Well, up to you I suppose, I'd say to rephrase and/or not link, but it's fine no matter what your call is.)

• • Ultimately felt it was right to unlink it. Ty for looking that over! - G
• the heavily Black 37th District

I'm not sure this is quite what the source says? "This district contained the Seattle’s predominantly Black neighborhoods." Despite the typo, I think it's saying that to the extent Seattle had Black people, they lived here, but that doesn't mean it was "heavily Black" overall. Seattle had a bit of a reputation as being lily white outside the International District in the era, to my vague understanding. I think we need a better source if the 37th really was heavily Black.

• • Found a source. - G

• 1954 election

There are various schools of thought on the proper level of concision, but I think the current text is too concise, and will lead to readers having to click wikilinks to acquire enough context to understand what was really going on. As is, the comment on Charles M. Stokes looks like it might just be historical background about black politicians in Washington, and it's not immediately obvious that it's linked to the vacancy. Also, non-American readers may not realize that many state legislature districts elect the top 2 candidates and will be confused for why #3 sued #2. Finally, quoting a lawyer for the losing side tends to be a bit dubious in general - they often state the case as their clients understand it and is a highly partial account. (Not saying it can't also be true, but it's not a very impressive source in general.) In particular, based on what the article says, it sounds like the #3 person had a point - McAdoo's home really wasn't in the 37th district. (Of course, it's possible McAdoo's lawyers also had a point in that the rules might not have been enforced so strictly for a machine-blessed candidate.) I'd suggest something maybe like "Charles M. Stokes was elected to the Washington House of Representatives for the 37th district in 1950 and 1952 for two-year terms, but opted to run for State Senate instead in 1954. McAdoo ran in the Democratic Party primary for the seat that Stokes was vacating. His platform..." (And then have something about the top-2 nature of advancement.) But up to you.

• I did my best to reword this section. - G
  • Hmm, is it accurate that Stokes resigned? I checked the sources on his page and they don't mention a resignation and simply say that he served 3 terms (1950, 52, 56). The main source cited here says "Stokes had decided to step down in 1954" but I would probably read that as an implicit "stepping down", i.e. simply not running again for that office, rather than straight-up resigning. If nothing else, the mood is about a decision, which implies that for McAdoo specifically, all he knew was that Stokes would at some point leave (whether it be a belated resignation or as a result of his term timing out).
• He was a licensed architect in five jurisdictions; Alaska, the District of Columbia, Montana, Oregon, and Washington state.

This is quite a minor point. I understand that for less famous figures there's more room for minutiae, but I don't think that most architects / lawyers / etc. have the states they were certified for mentioned, unless it's somehow relevant (e.g. they didn't actually have a certification and were doing under-the-table architecture or the like). Maybe either remove it, or verify the relevance of this list. SnowFire (talk) 22:25, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • I removed that part. - G

Okay, part 2.

• African-American

Style guides differ here on if a hyphen is merited, and you can't control categories or see also link to other Wikipedia articles, but I'd say to be consistent within this article. You use both the unhyphenated version and the hyphenated version; I'd say to just pick one.

• Picked the hyphenated one. - G
• he began to receive commissions designing private residences.

Mega-nit: The intent of this is clear, and feel free to keep it as-is if this is how it's expressed in architecture, but maybe "commissions to design private residences"? This could theoretically be misread as the commissions themselves somehow designing private residences.

• • Fixed. - G

• working nights and attending classes during the day but was forced to withdraw from the university for financial reasons

Arguing about commas is often a style issue not worth the time, but I'd say that despite all the earlier commas, to still include one after "day" to hint at the time gap.

• • Fixed. - G

• He chose to enroll in UW

Optional: Is it worth stating that yes, he and his family moved to Seattle? It's just that we said above that he relocated with his family to Portland, and it's not entirely uncommon to leave the family back and commute around on weekends or the like.

• • I couldn't get that to flow right, but I made it more heavily implied that he moved. - G

• 887 sq ft (82.4 m2), 620 sq ft (58 m2)

Meganit: Convert has a sigfig param, so I'd recommend {{convert|887|sqft|m2|abbr=on|sigfig=2}}. The extra 0.4 square meters is not really germane or relevant. Similarly, was that exactly 620 square feet, or just 620ish square feet? My guess is the latter, so I'd suggest to sigfig that conversion to just 1 and ~60 m^2.

• • Good idea, fixed. - G

• the integration of the design into the surrounding landscape

Is this from the Mumford article? It's not on Wikipedia library, alas. This is more side chatter than a request for change, but this is a little surprising... the "House of Merit" idea & the modular homes in Jamaica seems to suggest more "affordable & efficient" was McAdoo's usual goals, while "integrating into the landscape" suggests more of a bespoke, artisanal, and expensive approach to me (i.e. the Fallingwater's of the world). Did he really do both small homes that also integrated into landscapes and the like? Impressive if so!

• In the late 1960s, he returned to private practice full-time, where he specialized in civic and educational buildings such as the Southcenter Blood Bank (1970), the University of Washington Ethnic Cultural Center (1972), and the Queen Anne Pool (1977).

Side chatter: This is the source's fault not yours, but it's too bad that it's real vague as to what precisely McAdoo did for these buildings and what his role was. Did any of the other sources go into more detail on his 1970s career?

• • I couldn't find much on these. I think it's because his early career was highly publicized in architectural press, while by the time he was doing these big civic commissions he didn't really need the publicity to attract new clients. - G

Looks very solid overall, great work!

• @SnowFire: Sorry that took a second! I think I got to everything. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:33, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks, looks good. I made one minor comment above on the political campaign, but should be good to go otherwise. SnowFire (talk) 04:23, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    @SnowFire: Ok! Fixed that part too. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 01:51, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. That said, I have two other comments that don't affect support status:
  • Why did you remove the "Personal life and political ventures" section header? I think it's kinda handy to have a section end on his death, and then clearly delineate the switch to a retrospective on the non-architectural, non-career parts of his life.
    • Accident, I switched it back. - G
  • I see that Gog the Mild suggested switching NAACP to its spelled out form, but I don't agree. MOS:ACRO1STUSE is a little unclear - it writes "If there is an article about the subject of an acronym (e.g. NATO), then other articles should use the same style (capitalisation and punctuation) as that main article" but then also in the next paragraph restricts acronym-only use to just to a short list of exceptions. I'm not 100% certain what the guideline is saying (the first sentence suggests honoring our article being at just "NAACP", the second for spelling it out) but the NAACP is clearly way closer to NATO IMO - they're known by the acronym 99.99% of the time in 2024, and even in the 1950s & 60s were generally known as just the NAACP. NATO isn't directly in the list, but I don't think there's anything unusual about using NATO unadorned either. I respect that you're getting conflicting advice here, but if Gog is right about the MOS, then I think the MOS should be updated - the old style of just "NAACP" is better and how sources would write it and how Wikipedia titles the article. SnowFire (talk) 02:36, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yeah, I'm inclined to agree there too; IMO, the fully-spelled name is significantly less recognizable than the acronym. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 02:41, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Having followed the link I think you are being very North-American-centric. The majority of English-speaking readers will have no clue what a NAACP is. The MoS actually lists the - handful of - exceptions to the in full at first mention rule. Remember that this is an encyclopedia; the reason we are writing is to explain things to readers that they didn't know before. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:01, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That might be true, but these non-North American readers won't have a clue what the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is, either. It is significantly more educational to learn the term they are actually known by and use, NAACP, then a vestigial name from the 1910s that they can't really change because it'd change the acronym. Readers can click a wikilink for more detail, if desired, just like all wikilinks to side mentions.

If we were really desperate to include more explanatory context for non-American readers, then "the NAACP, an African-American civil rights organization" would be more helpful, because I really cannot stress enough how vestigial their old name is. Colored was a neutral term in the 1910s but was dated by the 1960s and very dated now. There's a reason that it's not highlighted by the organization itself. SnowFire (talk) 15:54, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Kavyansh

• "A residence designed by McAdoo in Burien was declared the "Home of the Year" by the Seattle Times " — I've always believed and used in all my articles that if the title of a newspaper contains the word The, the, we shouldn't be omitting it. Same with " residence three times in her Seattle Times coverage"
• "Benjamin Franklin McAdoo Jr. was born in Pasadena, California to" — missing MOS:GEOCOMMA
• "He attended school at Pasadena High School " — repetition of school
• "In 1940, he won second place" — I would have used the word achieved, but its totally upto you. Just a suggestion.
• "with their newborn daughter to Portland, Oregon for McAdoo" — missing MOS:GEOCOMMA
• I have made some table formatting errors ([19]) per MOS:DTAB. Please refer to it. Center align all the references.
• Please check the formatting for sources. The Seattle Times should be italicizes in th sfn as well the sources.

Solid work! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 04:24, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kavyansh.Singh: Thank you very much! I implemented all of this. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:33, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi Kavyansh.Singh, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:01, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sure, Support. Hope you are doing well, Gog! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 15:46, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

Recusing to review.

• "was declared the "Home of the Year" by The Seattle Times in association with the American Institute of Architects." "Home of the Year" for Seattle, for Washington, or some other area?
  • Clarified. - G
• "After designing a number of low-income houses and apartments throughout the 1950s, including eighty single-family houses in his "House of Merit" design". Having "design" twice in the clause, once as a verb and once as a noun, is a little confusing.
  • Fixed. - G
• "he participated in the NAACP". MOS:ACRO1STUSE says "an acronym should be written out in full for the first time, followed by the abbreviation in parentheses ... if it is used again in the article".

See my comment elsewhere on this. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:53, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I note that this has now been resolved. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:00, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • Fixed. - G
• "Early life and education" The first sentence of this section should give a date of birth.
  • Fixed. - G
• "McAdoo grew up in a ..." "McAdoo" → 'McAdoo Jr.'
  • Fixed. - G
• "He then began work at a number of private firms in Los Angeles." Were any of these employments connected to architecture?
  • Clarified. - G
• "He entered employment at the firm of James J. Chiarelli and Paul Hayden Kirk". 1. Was this one firm or two? 2. Is it known either what the firm did or what McAdoo did while there?
  • Elaborated. - G
• "He was initially hired for remodels and alterations, designing seventeen such commissions during his first year of business." Maybe "designing" → 'undertaking'?
  • Fixed. - G

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:06, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Unlike other apartment complexes in the area, these apartments were not limited to White tenants." Did this have anything to do with McAdoo?
  • Clarified that McAdoo also owned these. - G
• "His 1955–1956 design for the Kenneth & Kimi Ota house, the residence of a Japanese-American family living in Rainier Valley, Seattle." This is a sentence fragment.
  • Fixed. - G
• "which had no enforced laws against Black property owners." This implies that Bothell had such statutes, but did not enforce them. Is this what you mean?
  • Source has weird phrasing on this, so I followed it more closely. - G
• "Such ventures were unsuccessful". "Such ventures" or 'This venture'?
  • Fixed. - G
• "He served as the coordinating architect". Is there a link for "coordinating architect", or could you give a brief in line explanation.
  • Clarified to avoid using the term. - G
• "the USAID". What is this?
  • Defined. - G
• "Upon returning to Seattle" Is it known when?
  • Clarified. - G
• The title of the table "Architectural designs by Benjamin F. McAdoo" suggests that what follows is the full list. I assume this is not the case, in which case it needs retitling.
  • I restricted the scale of the list to just designs mentioned in the article. If this is weird, I could take it out; I couldn't think of another clear criteria. - G

The list is fine. Maybe 'A selection of McAdoo's designs'? Or ' A sample ....' or similar?

"Select" works. - G

• "After his death, architects Garold Malcolm and Richard Youel continued his firm". Is it known if it still exists?
  • It lasted about twenty years, clarified. - G
• Titles in the References should consistently be in title case. (Eg, see Sprague, lower case c for "contributions".
  • Fixed. - G

Gog the Mild (talk) 15:39, 24 October 2024 (UTC) Okiedokie, @Gog the Mild:, thank you very much for your review. I'm glad to hear that you're feeling better, btw. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 02:07, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Really good tweaks and responses. One come back above, and a last thought: Is McAdoo's cause of death known? Gog the Mild (talk) 14:03, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gog the Mild Good idea on the list name; also, I couldn't find a cause of death mentioned in any of the obituaries or articles. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 16:26, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Query for the coordinators

@FAC coordinators: may I nominate another article? (also to minimize needing to bug yall in the future, should I just presume its okay to nom a second article when it gets up to the required amount of source and prose reviews?) Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 19:56, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not yet. To start a second, as a rule of thumb, things need to be ticking well after three weeks or so and the nom have source and image passes and three general supports. There may be other reasons why the coordinators would not want a second nomination opening, but in this case that is moot as the nomination only has two general supports - Snowfire's and from someone called Gog. Feel free to ask again once this attracts a third general support. And this sort of thing is why we ask that a nominator check in separately each time they wish to open a second nom. Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:38, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, apologies for being premature on that - I thought Kavyansh had responded but I misremembered. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 23:46, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF

Ill try to review this soon. Hog Farm _Talk 22:55, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "That July, he joined the United States Marine Corps at Camp Roberts, California, where he continued to work as a draftsman." - where is the Marine Corps coming from? Both Cottrell-Crawford and Sprague say he was working for the Army Corps of Engineers. And Sprague refers to this as the "civil service". I highly doubt somehow who had formally joined the Marines would be allowed to go transfer to Kaiser in the middle of World War II
• "Benjamin McAdoo Sr. worked a variety of jobs, including as a general contractor," - where are you getting "general contractor"? Ref [3] state his father was an auto mechanic in 1917 and a hardwood floor contractor in 1930. Ref [1] also mentions tree hauling. This doesn't really fit well with what general contractor usually entails
• "After graduating in 1938, McAdoo attended Pasadena Junior College; at this time, he was living alongside his parents and siblings with his paternal grandmother, who ran a grocery store in the area." - Again, a bit nit-picky, but the source mentioning him living with his grandmother has this being according to the 1940 census; there doesn't seem to be evidence for when this living arrangment began, but the current phrasing of the article strongly implies this was ongoing in 1938
• "He became interested in architecture, motivated by his belief in fair housing and by his admiration for California African-American architect Paul R. Williams. " - both this and the lead imply that he became interested in architecture as a college student, but then there's Sprague p. 21 which has In ninth grade, he took a mechanical drawing class and, showing great promise in his drawing ability, focuse on becoming an architect from then on. Cottrell-Crawford does have him becoming interested in architecture in college, but I don't think we can just pick one source over the other here without a great reason, especially when Sprague is probably the stronger source
• "In the April of the following year, he left Chiarelli & Kirk to found his own practice, working from his apartment in the Capitol Hill neighborhood. " - this doesn't seem to be right. Sprague says his office was in the University District, Seattle. The version of Shaping Seattle Architecture on Wikipedia Library Project MUSE has the McAdoo chapter in a different page range (328-333) rather than the 50s cited in this article, but it appears to be the same source. It references the Capitol Hill office as being "after 1951"
• "McAdoo graduated with a Bachelor of Architecture degree on June 22, 1946" - your citations are off here. This is cited to Sprague, Dunham, and Mumford, but the exact date is found in none of this and is actually from Cottrell-Crawford
• "He participated in a small homes design competition in 1947, designing a 887 sq ft (80 m2) ranch house featuring a butterfly roof. Although the design did not receive the prize, it was reviewed favorably in a column in The Seattle Times." - why is this mentioned after his 1949 move? It would fit better in the chronology to have it earlier.
  • This question is still outstanding. Hog Farm _Talk 02:19, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Financed with profits from his previous residence commissions and mortgage insurance from the Federal Housing Administration, " - is "Financed with [...] mortgage insurance" really the best phrasing? Mortgage insurance isn't a type of financing. It's a sort of secondary backing of the mortgage to allow to get the borrower to get a better financing rate, but it's not really financing per se. Instead the financing was provided by that mortgage company that he had previously rented office space from. And I'm not quite seeing where "financed with profits from his previous residence commissions" is coming from unless you're getting that from "As a successful profession, McAdoo began acquiring other properties in Seattle"
• "with around eighty constructed over the following three years" - actually four, per the source. '51, '52, '53, '54
• "he purchased an office building for his firm in 1951" - is "office building" really the best way to describe this? Sprague describes a house purchased and then converted into an office space, while "office building" usually implies something purpose-built
• "McAdoo and his wife chose to relocate from Montlake into a residence outside of the Seattle city limits in 1958," is from the article, but the cited source states By 1957, as new suburban residential tracts proliferated, McAdoo and his family chose to leave the Seattle city limits,. The source does talk about characteristics of Bothell in 1958, and doesn't directly say he moved in 1957 vs 1958, but I don't think we can use the "chose to relocate [...] in 1958" language when the source says the decision had been made by 1957
• "which had nonexistent or unenforced laws against Black property owners." - a nitpick, but the source has and restrictions on people of color may have been either nonexistent or laxly enforced. which is a somewhat weaker claim

Ready for Overseas and D.C. section, but I can't stay up any later or I'll have trouble getting around to work tomorrow morning. The source-text integrity isn't quite there; I'm at an oppose right now. I've been having to go line-by-line through here since I've found a number of sourcing issues and I really don't have the energy right now to keep doing that. Hog Farm _Talk 03:15, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for your thorough review, Hog Farm. I'll try to address this over the next few days and get the source integrity into shipshape condition. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 03:33, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm: Apologies for the delay; came down with a nasty bug. I went through and checked source-text alignment throughout the article. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 00:56, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "He attended ceremonies for the Independence of Jamaica on August 6, 1962, alongside other American dignitaries such as President Lyndon B. Johnson" - I'd drop the specific date. This isn't direclty supported in the source, which just mentions participating in celebrations. The source very much leaves open the possibility that these ceremonies referred to in the source weren't only on the specific date of independence
  • Took out the date. - G
• I'm still confused by the citations of a page range of 50-51 for Mumford 2014 - were two different editions being used? The edition on the Wikipedia Library agrees with the later usage of pages like 329 and 331; while the 50-51 seems to be an outlier given that there is only a single chapter in this book focusing on McAdoo
  • Oops. I know exactly how this happened - McAdoo is the 50th chapter in the book, but the chapter headings kinda look like page numbers. Total brainfart there; fixed. - G
• "In D.C., McAdoo designed elements of the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts and the never-built National Fisheries Center and Aquarium, " - I'm not seeing where either source supports that the National Fisheries Center and Aquarium was never built
  • Huh. So, looking it to more, the aquarium was designed by Charles and Ray Eames, and Stone isn't mentioned at all.. I'm thinking that what McAdoo worked on was probably one of multiple competing designs for the project. Anyhow, it's not mentioned anywhere else, so I just removed it. - G
• "He designed the Queen Anne Pool in 1974–1977 as part of the Forward Thrust development project" - again, a bit of a nitpick, but the 1974-1977 date doesn't seem to be supported by the sources. The obit doesn't have a date, and PCAD and docomomo has 1978 (which appears to be the year the pool opened). Mumford has 1974-1978
  • Oh good catch. 1974–1978 is correct. - G
• "and a warehouse at the Naval Submarine Base Bangor" - a minor nitpick, but the source has that he designed a complex of warehouses, not just one building
  • Fixed. - G
• "The same year, he began hosting a weekly KUOW-FM radio show discussing racial issues, which ran until 1968" - are the sources saying that the radio program lasted until 1968, or his NAACP chapter presidency? The relevant bit from Houser is In 1964 he served as president of the Seattle chapter of the NAACP, and began broadcasting a weekly radio show focused on social issues. He maintained this post for four years. The PCAD source says he was NAACP chapter president from 1964 to 1968, so I wonder if that's what Houser is referring to by "post"
  • Very good catch there. I agree with your assessment that the post is probably the chapter presidency. Rephrased. - G

I think that's all from me for now; this is much better and I'll go ahead and strike the oppose. Some of these are fairly nit-picky. Hog Farm _Talk 02:19, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @Hog Farm: Thank you so much! Made more fixes. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 02:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • So where I am on this FAC is this: the various issues I have brought up are fixed from what I can tell. However, I have a personal thing where as a CPA IRL, if I've found a certain number of issues with something, I'm not going to sign off on it. At Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Strom Thurmond filibuster of the Civil Rights Act of 1957/archive1 I stood by the initial oppose, but I'm much more comfortable with this article than that one so I've struck the oppose. I'm not going to support this for promotion, but I don't have any objections to @FAC coordinators: promoting this and I expect a promotion to FAC to be the outcome here. Hog Farm _Talk 17:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Thanks for the review. I think this could benefit from an additional check for source-to-text integrity. I'll request one at WT:FACSR. FrB.TG (talk) 14:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from JennyOz

No time for review but wanted to suggest these tweaks...

• and Benjamin F. McAdoo, Sr. - remove comma per MOS:SR
• large amounts of voters - numbers of?
• He attended ceremonies for the Independence of Jamaica in 1962, alongside other American dignitaries such as President Lyndon B. Johnson - Johnson was still VP in 1962

I have been enjoying reading these architect articles, thanks. JennyOz (talk) 03:11, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

JennyOz Oh thank you very much for these little fixes! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 04:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review: pass

Will pick this up shortly. - SchroCat (talk) 15:55, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you SchroCat, I always really appreciate your reviews. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 18:47, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Formatting

• Why does FN 16 (The Seattle Times 1981) have a page number, but FN 17 (The Seattle Times 1981) not?
• It's a really petty thing, but you list the names of the sources as part of the links (such as The Seattle Times has the harvid of The Seattle Times) - which is good. Why did you go with the harvid of SPI for Seattle Post-Intelligencer?

Those two tiny bits aside, the formatting is consistent and in line with policy and practice. - SchroCat (talk) 14:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Fixed these! - G

Source analysis

• All sources used are reliable and high quality
• Additional searches have shown no sources unused or missing (with the caveat that I'm not a subject specialist, so don't have access or knowledge of offline specialist sources that may cover this area). - SchroCat (talk)

Text-to-source check

Given the comments of Hog Farm and the steer by FrB.TG, I'll cover this as well.

• To follow - SchroCat (talk) 14:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the later two, there is every possibility I've missed the point in the references, so if you can point me to it, that would be great.

• FN1, 2 & 3 (1): According to PCAD, the mother's name is "Alferetta Derousell" not "Alfaretta DeRoussel "; alternate first name spellings of "Alfravetta", "Alforetta" and "Alfretta". Alternate surname spelling is "Deroussell" – all the alternates should probably be listed in a footnote, just to cover all the bases.
  • Done. - G
• FNs 1, 2 & 4: Can you point out where it says his grandmother ran a local grocery store please
  • From PCAD; Benjamin. Jr.'s paternal grandmother, lived nearby at 674 South Fair Oaks. Carrie, according to the 1910 US Census, and was a merchant operating a retail grocery. -G
• FNs 1, 2 & 4: Can you point out where it says he continued to work as a draftsman with the Corp of Engineers?
  • Sprague, p. 21. In July 1942, McAdoo entered the civil service as a draftsman for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, stationed at Camp Roberts, California. - G
    • Excellent - thanks for both of those. I've had a long day and my eyes slipped right over those two bits. - SchroCat (talk) 18:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done to half way through Architectural practice – will finish up shortly. - SchroCat (talk) 17:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just three minor points to end on:

• "totaling 3,600 sq ft" The source says 3,700-square-foot, not 3,600\
  • Fixed. - G
• "staying in Jamaica for 18 months". Mahmoud says "two years between McAdoo's arrival and departure"
• I don't see in Mahmoud anything to support that he "did architectural work for the Department of State and the General Services Administration[8]" while in DC.
  • These are both in Mahmoud After 18 months in Jamaica, the family moved to Washington, D.C., where McAdoo did similar work with the State Department, and then with the General Services Administration, where, as Enid McAdoo remembers, “he got to work on the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts.” - G
    • Christ, how did I miss that chunk of text! - SchroCat (talk) 20:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have been through the whole article line by line and checked every single sentence against the sources and this is the total of my findings - all minor, with a couple of typos and a couple where I suspect the info was from a different source that hasn't been cited at the specific point it should have been (something we've all done from time to time). - SchroCat (talk) 19:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SchroCat: Thank you very much! Responded. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 20:20, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Pass of source review. - SchroCat (talk) 20:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Roswell incident

Nominator(s): Feoffer (talk) 04:14, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a conspiracy theory which alleges that the 1947 crash of a United States Army Air Forces balloon near Roswell, New Mexico was actually caused by an extraterrestrial spacecraft. With extensive polished sourcing, the article details the actual events of 1947, the later rise of UFO conspiracy theories, the emergence of the Roswell conspiracy theories, their evolution and eventual debunking. Feoffer (talk) 04:14, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• File:Marcel-roswell-debris_0.jpg: where is that tagging coming from? It's not consistent with what's at the source site. Ditto File:Ramey-dubose-debris.jpg
  • The images were published without copyright notice in July 1947 and never renewed, entering public domain. While previously-unpublished images in the UTA collection would fall under the blanket Creative Commons release, UTA can't actually assert copyright on a faithful 2d replica of a public domain image. Feoffer (talk) 06:43, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Is it known that these particular images were published in 1947? I'm not seeing that at the source site either. If that can be shown, I'd suggest ditching the CC licensing on the basis of the images being PD. If it can't, though, the CC license UTA uses is BY-NC, not BY-SA which is what the images are currently tagged. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:37, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • fixed Ramey-dubose by adding first publication and ditch CC licensing. Feoffer (talk) 05:02, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      UTA's stated license is probably not relevant. I don't see any reason they'd have the rights to the photo, so the license would be for the scanning and uploading. If the photos are in the public domain then the UTA license is not needed, but if the photos are not then the UTA license is not valid. J. Bond Johnson took both photos for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram on 8 July 1947. The Telegram and other papers ran the photos on the 9th and 10th. The Telegram didn't have a copyright notice. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:27, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• File:Aztec-hoax-pic.png: the uploader is not the copyright holder here
  • Fixed, uploader field now reflects derivation from image published in 1950. Feoffer (talk) 06:50, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• File:Screenshot_of_Alien_Prop_from_Roswell,_The_UFO_Cover_Up_(1994).jpeg needs a stronger FUR. Ditto File:Alien_Autopsy_Fact_or_Fiction_1995_screenshot_cropped.png, File:Jose_Chung_alien_autopsy_screenshot.png
  • Have improved the first. Open to more advice. Feoffer (talk) 16:10, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also improved the other two. Feoffer (talk) 05:07, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• File:Rosewell_Reports,_Volume_1.ogv: source link appears to go to an unrelated video, please check

• fixed Feoffer (talk) 04:49, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• also renamed the file. Rosewell->Roswell Feoffer (talk) 05:18, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• File:Roswell_Sign_01_(cropped).jpg: what's the copyright status of the sign? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:32, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Do you have advice on how I could find this out? The sign was created by the city as part of their 70th anniversary tourism campaign, is on public land, and there is no indication the city asserts copyright: NYTimes credits only their own photographer. Feoffer (talk) 05:12, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Is it known when the sign was erected? See commons:Commons:Public_art_and_copyrights_in_the_US. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:37, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Dug into this for you. The signs were created by EG Structural of Phoenix for the city of Roswell. It was formally unveiled in May 2017. Feoffer (talk) 05:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Updated description at Commons to reflect sign origin. Feoffer (talk) 12:59, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Nikkimaria and Feoffer: I swapped this image out for File:Roswell NM Main Street.jpg. The "alien" eyes applied to the streetlights are just a pair of common geometric shapes and not themselves copyrightable. I tried emailing the city and EGS last week, but didn't hear back from either one. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:53, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from HAL

Staking out a spot. Comments to come soon. ~ HAL333 17:53, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks in advance for feedback -- great username and sig. Feoffer (talk) 13:58, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm not a huge fan of the wording of "1947 crash of a United States Army Air Forces balloon near Roswell, New Mexico was actually caused by an extraterrestrial spacecraft". It implies that a UFO caused a balloon to crash.
• "metallic and rubber debris was" --> "were"
• "Trust in the US government declined and acceptance of conspiracy theories became widespread" - can you explain why this is the case? Maybe mention the Assassination of John F. Kennedy and Watergate — I think a mention of the latter is especially appropriate since you then use "Cosmic Watergate".
• "On September 20, 1980, the TV series In Search of..." — Can you mention that this episode was hosted by Leonard Nimoy?
• Stanton Friedman is linked more than once
• "decomposing from exposure and predators" — I think "scavengers" is more apt than "predators".
• I would wikilink Oliver Stone
• "Thomas DuBose... acknowledged the weather balloon cover story" — This sentence is confusing. He acknowledges that the balloon story, or that it was a cover? Or that it was a cover for Mogul? Or a saucer? Please clarify.
• "a New Mexico congressman" - Could you name him/her?
• "Santilli would admit years later" --> "Santilli admitted years later" per WP:WOULDCHUCK, and can you give the actual year of the admission?
• This issue pops up elsewhere:
  • "The Air Force would later describe the" --> "The Air Force later described the
  • "New Mexico emerged that would later form elements"
  • "alien bodies that would later become associated with Roswell"
  • "Independent researchers would find patterns"
  • "Doty would later say"
• Terminator 2 should be italicized, not put in quotations
• I would wikilink Kodachrome
• I would remove the months from "In September 2017," and from "In February 2020,". They're not necessary to the reader's understanding, are not given for most older dates and strike me as recentist.
• "weather balloon" is linked in the Project Mogul subsection, but not in its first mention much earlier...
• "Thomas DuBose" also has duplicate links but is still not linked in his first mention
• "Ufologists had previously considered" — "previously" is redundant since you use the past perfect

Very nice work. Kudos to you for tackling a subject like this. ~ HAL333 14:44, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great points all! I think we've got 'em all. Feoffer (talk) 02:41, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to support. ~ HAL333 05:35, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Unfortunately, just need to flag that I've coincidentally identified a copyvio concern related to a major contributor to this article. I have not assessed to what extent their contributions persist in the present version, but careful spotchecks will be warranted here. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:05, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Nikkimaria Thanks for looking into it! Glancing through diffs and running "Who Wrote That" (assuming I have the right editor) I see copyedits, references, formatting, and deletions. More scrutiny never hurts though, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I also looked through the edits of the user with the copyvio (assuming I have the right one), but it's mostly deletions and ref polishing. Feoffer (talk) 10:33, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Borsoka

• On June 4, researchers at Alamogordo Army Air Field launched a long train of these balloons...the balloon subsequently crashed Why not "a balloon/one of the ballons subsequently crashe"?
• Where is Alamogordo Army Air Field located? (For instance, near X in state Y)
• Where is Brazel's ranch located?
• Publicity of Arnold's report incited a wave of over 800 sightings... I would avoid the verb "incite".

• I would also avoid the verb "trigger". Could a more neutral language be used? I think nobody could prove that Arnold's report triggered each sighting?

• Changed to Publicity of Arnold's report preceded a wave of over 800 similar sightings..., Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 21:01, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Where is Roswell Army Air Field located?
• Where is Fort Worth Army Air Field located?
• Why is not Associated Press italicised?
• Where is Wright-Patterson Air Force Base located?

So far no major issues, more to come... Borsoka (talk) 06:04, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Link (and possibly decrypt) USAF when it is first mentioned.
• I would write "the alleged Majestic 12 group" instead of MJ-12 because the abbreviation is not introduced anywhere in the text.
• ..., many of whom still accepted earlier hoaxes like the Aztec crash,... I would delete it to avoid possible original synthesis.
• The reports of bodies came decades later. Delete, because the core of the statement is repeated in a following sentence ("The claims of alien bodies – made decades later by elderly witnesses,...")
• He identifies six distinct narratives... Could these be listed in a footnote?
• The 1994 film Roswell was based on the book UFO Crash at Roswell by Kevin D. Randle and Donald R. Schmitt. Delete (the info is covered twice in previous sections, and this section should not be an exhaustive list).
• Could section "Popular fiction" be expanded from international perpective?
• I think section "Statements by US Presidents" is the only weak point of this otherwise excellent article. As it is not introduced, it reads like a random collection of quotes about Roswell from randomly chosen US presidents. Borsoka (talk) 03:19, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I am wandering whether the article could be expanded to become more international. As far as I know, Roswell is an important topic of conspiracy theorists all over the world. Borsoka (talk) 04:49, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Great suggestions all! We've addressed them with the following exceptions:

  • Alamagordo, Roswell, and Ft. Worth are place names, so we can't add "near X" without being redundant (e.g. "Roswell Army Air Field, near Roswell".
  • Per desire for international fiction, search yielded no results. Also looked at French, German, Russian, and Japanese wikipedias, -- only one non-English fictional work mentioned, with only a minimal link to Roswell.
  • per desire for international influence of the story, searched was conducted, but it's unclear if RSes exist on its international influence. @Rjjiii might have more ideas on these last two points.

  • I added two British connections.[20] Borsoka, if I find more international coverage, I'll try to incorporate it and post back here. A lot of sources explicitly treat it as an American thing. Some talk about "American audiences".[21] This article about the discrepancy in Hollywood and Bollywood alien films says that the American "fascination with outer space can be credited to the infamous Roswell incident": [22] There is also a trend where major UFO narratives in other countries are given the moniker of "X's Roswell. Notably, the Valensole UFO incident is "France's Roswell", the Rendlesham Forest incident is "Britain's Roswell", and the Varginha UFO incident is the "Roswell of Brazil".Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 21:02, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks again for the feedback. Feoffer (talk) 04:55, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are two minor issues pending but they cannot prevent me from supporting the article's promotion, even if I know this article is only a new attempt by the US government to conceal its cooperation with blood-sucking grey aliens. The Truth Is Out There. Thank you for this thoroughly researched, well-written and interesting article. Borsoka (talk) 11:28, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note

This has been open for five weeks and discussion seems to have dried up with two general supports. It's on the urgents list, but unless there's significant activity towards a consensus to promote in the next few days, it is liable to be archived. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 20:11, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC

Will comment shortly. - SchroCat (talk) 20:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "— Associated Press (July 8, 1947)[19]": I'm not sure about having a link to the file here: that's what the citation is supposed to do
  • Done, linked only from the citation, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Bill Moore": Is there only one person called 'Moore' in the article? If so, the name "Bill Moore" doesn't need to be given six times in addition to the use twice of 'William "Bill" Moore': Just 'Moore' after the first time will suffice.
  • Done somewhat. There is also a "Charles B. Moore" who was involved in the 1947 incident, worked for Project Mogul, and is cited in the article. "Bill Moore" is specified in several sections still, but I've changed the subsequent mentions in those sections to just "Moore", Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Ditto Stanton Friedman
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Ditto Kevin Randle
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Ditto Donald Schmitt
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "The most significant witness was Jesse Marcel": this is a bit of editorialising. I think it best to say according to who
  • I've reworked this instead to quote the book and to be more objective.[23] Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Your capitalisation on "army" is a little awry. Unless it's a formal name of a unit or camp, etc, general use of "the Army subsequently", "the Army's weather balloon", "captured by the Army", "the Army to a second crash site on the ranch, where the Army personnel", etc should all be in lower case; for "Army Intelligence officer", both terms should be lower case, per MOS:MILITARY
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "In 1991, Kevin Randle and Donald Schmitt published UFO Crash at Roswell.[136] The 1991 book": I'm not sure why 1991 is repeated in the second sentence
  • Done, "The 1991 book" changed to "It", Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "organised" -> "organized"
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hope these help. - SchroCat (talk) 09:56, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate it SchroCat; I think I've resolved these concerns in the article, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 07:32, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support All good on prose. - SchroCat (talk) 08:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley

• You describe the balloon as crashed at the end of the first paragraph, but I think you need to make this clear at the start.
  • Changed "balloon" to "balloon debris" in the lead, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 08:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "they lost contact within 17 miles (27 km) of W.W. "Mac" Brazel's ranch near Corona, New Mexico". This is unclear. They lost contact with all the balloons? With the one that crashed? This needs clarifying.
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 08:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Amid the first summer of the Cold War,[7] press nationwide covered Kenneth Arnold's June 24 account". How did Arnold get involved? You imply below that at this stage the debris had not been reported.
  • He was involved only indirectly in creating the idea of a flying saucer. Would trimming things down like this be more clear: "Amid the first summer of the Cold War, press nationwide covered Kenneth Arnold's June 24 account of what became known as flying saucers, objects which allegedly performed maneuvers beyond the capabilities of any known aircraft. Publicity of Arnold's report preceded a wave of over 800 similar sightings. With no phone or radio, Brazel was initially unaware of the ongoing flying disc craze," → "Amid this first summer of the Cold War, nationwide press coverage of the earliest flying saucer report preceded a wave of over 800 similar sightings. With no phone or radio, Brazel was initially unaware of the ongoing flying disc craze," or is it something that needs to be explained in this article? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 08:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• According to the article on Arnold, 24 June was not the date of a report by him, but the date he claimed to have seen his own UFO. If this is correct, it should be explained. Dudley Miles (talk) 14:39, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Gotcha, I've tried to better explain this in a recent edit[24] and have left the June dates out of this article as somewhat out of scope. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 05:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Nevertheless, belief in a UFO cover-up". "in UFO cover-ups"?
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 08:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• You refer to The Roswell Incident, Berlitz and Moore before you introduce the book. This needs explaining and rearranging.
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 08:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "In an interview with Mac Brazel's son, William Brazel Jr. described how the military arrested his father and "swore him to secrecy". If there are reliable sources, I think it is worth clarifying that Mac Brazel died before interest revived in the Roswell incident, so all accounts of his story were second hand.
  • Done, added some bits on this, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 08:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• More to follow. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:30, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks Dudley Miles! At the nominator's request,[25] I'll try to respond to concerns while they deal with an emergency out in the real world. I think I've addressed all but one of these in the article and look forward to future notes, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 08:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Dennis provided false names for the nurse who allegedly witnessed the autopsy." Name or names?
  • Done, added details, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "citing a new location for the alien craft recovery, including a new group of archaeologists not connected the Barnett story." The last part is ungrammatical and does not make sense. A group of archaeologists was a location?
  • Done, clarified, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "The initial 1994 USAF report admitted that the weather balloon explanation was a cover story, but for Project Mogul, a military surveillance program." I would leave out ", but" - or expand as not for aliens but for Mogul.
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Accounts of alien recovery sites are contradictory and not present in any 1947 reports." This is not needed as you have made it clear all along.
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "The military, charged with protecting the classified project, claimed that the crash was of a weather balloon." You have already said this several times and do not need to say it again.
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "Roswell Incident timeline". This heading does not make sense as the table is not a timeline.
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "features a character Roger who is an alien that crashed at Roswell". This is ungrammatical. "Who" implies a person and "that" an object.
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I think it is better to have separate sections for notes and citations rather than a single reference section, but that is a personal view. Dudley Miles (talk) 19:00, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks again Dudley Miles. I think I have addressed all of the concerns above. Regarding the footnotes, I've reformatted them so that one section has only notes and one has only short citations. All full citations have been moved down to "Sources". Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Looks fine now. Dudley Miles (talk) 08:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review: Pass

Formatting

• I'll pick up on this shortly. - SchroCat (talk) 08:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I'm not sure all the quotes in the refs are entirely necessary. Can you check at WP:FOOTQUOTE and then examine each of the quotes against the criteria to see if they fit?
  • Done. Most of those were left over from earlier efforts to collaborate when not all editors had copies of sources. The remaining 6 give the full context of quotes in the article, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• If the quote at FN 176 remains, it should be in sentence case, not all caps
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The capitalisation of the sources should be consistent, which this isn't. While most are in 'start case', there are a few in sentence case
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk)
• Some of the words in start case should be in lower case (I'm looking at FNs76 and 79 as examples, where Up, That, Over and Of should be lower case: these are just two examples, however, and you need to check in both refs and sources for other transgressions)
  • Done, I think it's all title case now. "That" and "Over" both have four letters?[26] The 1–3 letter minor words are all lowercase. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • MOS:5LETTER says to lower case prepositions with up to four letters, but capitalise for five or more. - SchroCat (talk) 04:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 23:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• FN65: Is the word really rendered as "Ufo" in AmEng? You have it as "UFO" elsewhere
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Why are some newspaper and magazine articles listed in the references and some in the sources?
  • ?: Older versions of this article had primary news coverage cited inline with full citations, so I kept doing so per WP:CITEVAR. Do I need to make all inline citations into shortened footnotes for FAC? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Consistency of approach is key. I've seen all in references, all in sources and those only used once in the refs and those used multiple times in the sources. As long as there is a logic to it, and as long as you are consistent in how that logic is applied, there is flexibility on the point. - SchroCat (talk) 04:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Done, I've separated the full and short citations. There was some general consensus for that method in the talk page archives, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 00:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Some of your newspaper sources have locations, some don't: is there a reason for that? If not, ensure consistency
  • Done, using location only for books now, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Associated Press (2013), Deseret News (1947), Entertainment (2013) and TIME (1997): these are not needed before the source details – they are just repeating what is in the properly formatted source
  • ?: What is the expected way to place them clearly in alphabetical order? I see some pages do something like |author=Associated Press and am trying to avoid that, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk)
    • Normally by title (which is what appears first in the citation), so "Associated Press (2013)" would be sorted on "Roswell Author". - SchroCat (talk) 04:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Done, went with the first word or two, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 00:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• What are the publication details for Cordero?
  • Done, added publication, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Friedman & Berliner, you don't need the words "Originally published" – just lave the year in the orig-date field
  • Done; as a note the template's documentation explicitly asks editors not to do this, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Frost & Laing publisher location should be "Abingdon, Oxfordshire", not "Oxfordshire, England"
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• ISBNs should be consistently displayed (you have, for example, the following formats: 978-0-8131-2568-8, 978-0-415-69060-7, 9780063279773 and 978-1134962525).
  • Done, converted to 13-digit with hyphens. This seems a common request for FAC, but the template's documentation advises against doing this, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• G.P. Putnam's should have a space between the initials
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The location for Gulyas should be "Luton, Bedfordshire"
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Knight publisher location should be "Abingdon, Oxfordshire"
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Kottmeyer publisher location should be "Abingdon, Oxfordshire"
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• May publisher location should be "Cham, Zug"
  • Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• You have (both in the body and in the refs "U.S." and "US". Unless it's a title or formal name, best to make consistent

That may be it on the formatting, but I'll take another spin after you've sorted these. I'll also do the literature checks on the next part too. - SchroCat (talk) 19:57, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks SchroCat, I've done most of these. There are two where I had questions about what the expectation is, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 22:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Questions answered and I've added a point about the prepositions. - SchroCat (talk) 04:36, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I think I've done all of these now, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 00:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source reliability and coverage

• UFOs and conspiracy coverage are normally a bit of a nightmare in terms of sourcing, but it looks like you've done well in keeping to reliable sources. I'll get back on this part soon. - SchroCat (talk) 04:39, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I am not a specialist in the area, so don't have a full grasp of every aspect of the literature, so I've tried to take a conservative and cautious approach to requirements.
• Going through the sources, I see that all—as far as I can tell—are reliable; all are being used appropriately.
• Additional research into any unused sources is complicated by the subject matter, but those sources that have not been used are of the unreliable type that shouldn't be here anyway. - SchroCat (talk) 06:33, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I appreciate you looking through this stuff and also the kind words. Yes, it's a "nightmare" to look for sources. Like, there are a couple of books by Dr. Michael D. Swords that at-a-glance look good, but he was a professor of natural sciences who retired and started writing WP:PULP history that speculates about a vast alien coverup. There is self-published skeptical research by Robert G. Todd and Timothy Printy that has to be cited only to the extent that the published WP:RS use it. For some conspiracy theory books that were not covered like The Roswell Report by Eberhart and Top Secret/MAJIC by Friedman, the multi-colored chart in the talk page archives shows that most reliable sources didn't place any weight on those works. Thanks again, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 06:29, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for the changes: I'm happy to pass the source review - SchroCat (talk) 06:24, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi SchroCat and thanks for that. As a first-time nominator this article will need a source to text veracity check and a plagiarism check. Would you be able to oblige? To the extent that these are not already covered above anyway. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:08, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sure, no problems; I'll do that shortly. - SchroCat (talk) 15:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Boot Monument

Nominator(s): ‍Relativity ⚡️ 22:12, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a strange monument located in Saratoga National Historical Park, New York. It is shaped like a boot. However, the monument's honoree is never mentioned on the monument because his name was Benedict Arnold, someone who betrayed the Continental army to the British army. I've brought this article from Start-class to GA-class (review), and then had it reviewed for A-class, which it passed. I think that it's now ready for FAC. ‍Relativity ⚡️ 22:12, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:26, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Working Sorry, I'm inexperienced with alt text. I'm working on reading up on how to add that to an image in an infobox. Hopefully I'll find out soon. ‍Relativity ⚡️ 02:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I just added draft alt text for the two images. Relativity, feel free to edit the text as you see fit. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:39, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

I was a reviewer at the ACR and can support the article for promotion to FA class. I also did the source review and spot checks at the ACR which passed, I can do these again if needed. Matarisvan (talk) 19:11, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

• "continued to grow ever more bitter towards the Continental Army when he was passed over for promotion, lost his business, and he was court-martialed" => "continued to grow ever more bitter towards the Continental Army when he was passed over for promotion, lost his business, and was court-martialed"

• Done

• Link Arnold on first use in body

• Linked in Background section; not sure if I need to link it elsewhere

• "American Major General Benedict Arnold had contributed to both Battles of Saratoga" - can we get a bit more context around this? I doubt that almost anyone outside the United States has the faintest idea what/when the Battles of Saratoga were, so you need to explain that this occurred during the American Revolutionary War and potentially even add that this was fought between the Americans and British

• added "two crucial battles of the American Revolutionary War that took place near Saratoga, New York."

• "a writer of several military histories about the Battle of Saratoga" - singular? It was plural earlier

• changed to "battles"

• "the only monument in Saratoga National Park that does not say the name of its honoree" - as a monument can't speak I would suggest that "show the name" would be better

• Done

• "The toe of the Boot Monument was stolen by college boys on a visit" - any idea when this was? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:01, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• As I stated in the ACR, unfortunately no. All of the sources that were used in that little section date from 1927-1931, but a specific date is never mentioned. ‍Relativity ⚡️ 18:01, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• On the last point, I think you should at least state that the "mysterious informer" bit occurred in 1931, because that seems indisputable. Currently there's nothing to give any sort of timeframe whatsoever within the entire 130+ year history of the monument...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:02, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @ChrisTheDude: Done. Thanks for the review! ‍Relativity ⚡️ 00:45, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

Recusing to review.

• "However, at the end of the conflict, Arnold's leg and horse were shot. When the horse fell, Arnold's leg shattered." This doesn't really make sense, it is given almost in bullet point. It needs unpacking a litle and expressing in full prose.

• I tried changing it to "While fighting at the Battle of Bemis Heights, Arnold's left leg was severely injured after it had been shot and crushed by his horse, which had been hit by gunfire as well.". Let me know your thoughts.

How's about something like 'While fighting at the Battle of Bemis Heights, Arnold was shot and severely injured in his left leg. His horse was also hit by gunfire and fell on Arnold, crushing his already injured leg.'? Gog the Mild (talk) 13:08, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I like it :). Done

• "This contributed to Arnold's bitterness ... This along with the fact that his ..." Could we avoid two consequecutive sentences starting with "This"?

• Both sentences changed

• Also, suggest rephrasing the first 'Along with his combat wounds, business troubles, Congress having promoted some rival and younger generals ahead of him, and a court-martial which resulted in him being convicted of two minor charges of using his role as military commander of Philadelphia to make a profit, this being overlooked caused Arnold to develop a growing bitterness towards the revolutionary cause.' or similar.

• Changed to "In addition, his combat wounds, business troubles, the promotion of rival and younger generals by Congress, and a court-martial conviction of two minor charges of profiting off of his military commander of Philadelphia role further angered Arnold.", although I'm not sure how I feel about it.

"in his report of the aftermath of the battle". Delete "of the aftermath", I assume the report was on the whole battle. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:20, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Would 'which angered Arnold. In addition, his combat wounds, business troubles, the promotion of rival and younger generals by Congress, and a court-martial conviction of two minor charges of profiting off of his military commander of Philadelphia role further embittered him.' work better for you?

Better, yes. I've changed it.

• "with Sir Henry Clinton finally offering". Introduce Clinton.

• I added "British General." Hopefully that's enough...

• "and remained as a general there until the war ended." Could we be told the year it ended?

• Done

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:53, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "In a Saratoga Monument Association (SMA) meeting in July of 1882". Introduce the SMA.

• Done

• "There were no objections to the stake." It is a little unclear by this.

• Tried "No one at the meeting objected to the stake being placed"

• "The monument underwent restoration after Adolph S. Ochs, publisher of The New York Times, financed it." Is it known when this restoration took place?

• As I said above, unfortunately no. All of the sources that were used in that little section date from 1927-1931, but a specific date is never mentioned.

• but it was later moved after further research as to where Arnold injured his leg, which was the more southern end of the main redoubt line." This is not clear and could probably be usefully rephrased.

• Tried "The monument was originally located further to the north at the top of the hill at the Breymann Redoubt site, but after further research as to where Arnold injured his leg, the monument was moved further south to where the main fortifications of the redoubt were"

Suggest removing the second "further", but otherwise that looks good.

Removed

• "Appearance" section. This should start with an overall description - not with the inscription. This could be resolved by swapping the first and second paragraphs of the section

• Done

• References: article titles should consistently be in title case, regardless of how they appear in their original.

• Done

Gog the Mild (talk) 18:31, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: I think I've addressed everything you've brought up above. Thank you for taking the time to review! ‍Relativity ⚡️ 22:53, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Grand. A couple of come backs and suggestions above. If I don't respond to something it means I am content. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:20, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: Addressed everything. Thanks again ‍Relativity ⚡️ 01:59, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review: pass

I'll do this in a little bit. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:31, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are a few comments to start:

• Aryes should be Ayres

• Fixed

• Ayres: I recommend replacing the url with this one that links directly to the book listing, rather than to a word search within the book.

• Fixed

• I can't find the Ayres book in WorldCat, but I can find a 2006 print book with a similar name by the same author. Is the 2008 e-book a less-distributed update on the 2006 print book?

• I suppose so, although I'm not 100% sure. There's a 2006 edition that has less pages than the 2008 edition.

• Ducharme and Fine: the pages parameter should show the page numbering, not the number of pages. For this entry, it should be 1309–1331, not 23.

• Fixed

• Ducharme and Fine: Social Forces appears to be published in Chapel Hill, NC. Where did you find the publication place to be Athens, GA?

• I believe that I had seen that Ducharme and Fine were both from the University of Georgia, and found that the university was located in Athens. Fixing now.

• Duling: I recomment this url in place of the one the article currently uses, for the same reason as the one above for the Ayres book.

• Fixed

• Frothingham: This listing makes it seem like it is for an article called "The Turning Point of the Revolution" by Frothingham and and Nickerson, whereas it is a review by Frothingham of Nickerson's book The Turning Point of the Revolution. You should remove Nickerson as author of the article and change the article title to "Reviewed Work: The Turning Point of the Revolution Hoffman Nickerson". Also add the full page range.

• I'm not sure how I messed this up, but this citation is for the actual book by Hoffman Nickerson. Oops. Hopefully I've fixed that accordingly.

I'll continue looking through the sources and add more comments later. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are a few more:

• Wikilink Benson John Lossing

• Done

• Lossing: add New York, New York as location of publication.

• Done

• Lossing: I recommend using this link.

• Done

• Lossing: the url goes to volume 2. If the citation is to that volume, then add the volume number to the works cited listing.

• Added volume number

• Lossing: In a works cited list otherwise entirely composed of publications from the 20th and 21st centuries, this work stands out. Is there not a newer work that can support the claim that Arnold fled to New York to join the British?

• Yes, Philbrick's book works as well. Should I replace it?

• I recommend that you do. WP:OLDSOURCES indicates that newer scholarship should be preferred over older. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed

• I recommend Wikilinking Savas Beatie. It's a redirect to the founder of the company, which is not the most helpful, but I suppose there's a possibility someone will convert that redirect into a real article someday.

• Linked

• Murphy: I recommend using this link.

• Done

• Tonsetic: I recommend this link.

• Done

• Williams: I recommend using this link.

• Done

• Citation 5 is Luzader 2008, p. 388–390 but should be "pp."

• Fixed

• Citation 14 is Randall 1990, pp. 448–540. Is that supposed to be 448–450? 122 pages is way too long a range for this citation to be useful.

• I'd added the wrong pages anyways so I've fixed it now.

• This citation (citation 13 now) still gives 448–540 as the page range. That range is way too long to be helpful to the reader. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've lost access to the book, but I'll message someone or ask at WP:TREX t. rex... :) to see if they know which pages that appears on specifically.

@Dugan Murphy: Done ‍Relativity ⚡️ 02:42, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Leopold: I recommend using a citation template like Template:Cite document to fix the formatting issues.

• Done, but now there's no link to the actual document. Is that okay?

• Oh, that url is important. I just changed it myself to Template:Cite report, which supports the inclusion of a url and archive url. The source listing has the important information and it is formatted better, so I think it's good now. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:05, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you!

I'll add more later. Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:53, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is the rest of my comments:

• MOS:DATETIES tells me the date format for both the body and the citations should MDY instead of DMY. The exception listed there for articles on the modern US military, including biographical articles related to the modern US military doesn't seem to apply well to a history marker commemorating an 18th-century figure.

• I think I've now fixed all of the instances of dmy.

• When using Template:Poem quote, don't use the source parameter for the citations. That parameter is for the name of the person being quoted, which the reader already knows is the monument. Instead, move the citations to the main body so they attach to the end of the inscription, rather than appear on a new line, preceded by an emdash.

• Moved. Is that what you're looking for?

• I just moved the citations myself. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:19, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you (again)

• Watson: Add a publication place since this is not a super well-known publication.

• Added

• I recommend piping The Telegraph Wikilink so "(Nashua, New Hampshire)" doesn't show up in italics.

• Done

• "Find Clue to Missing Monument": Wikilink goes to wrong paper.

• It does? For me it goes where it should. Where does it go for you?

• It's the second use of that newspaper article, which is currently citation 28. The Wikilink goes to The Daily Telegraph instead of The Telegraph (Nashua, New Hampshire). You should use "ref name" anyway so both citations show up as one in the references list. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:19, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed

• "May Find Toe of Only Statue to a Left Leg": Since there's no Wikilink for the newspaper, I recommend adding the publication city.

• Done

• Thompson: add publication date.

• Done

• Rather than including "(U.S. National Park Service)" in the web page title, you list National Park Service in the publisher parameter.

• Done

• "Digital Collections": It would be helpful to add New York State Archives using the publisher parameter. Also, capitalize "dedicated". Also, why is this the only web item without an archive link?

• Added publisher, capitalized, and added archive link.

• If The Washington Post is Wikilinked, so should The New York Times.

• Linked

• Coe: Capitalize the article title.

• Done

• I would say you should pipe The Evening Tribune Wikilink, but it goes to the wrong paper anyway. If there isn't a Wiki article for this paper, you should add Providence as the publication place.

• Unlinked and added location

• Duffus's initials appears to be R.I., not R.L.

• Fixed

• I'm of the opinion that information in the infobox shouldn't need citations because it should only summarize information that is already cited in the body. In that regard, I recommend adding to the body the monument's location within the historical park (that info seems to be indicated in the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph of the History section, but it says it is in "Saratoga National Park", not Saratoga National Historical Park, as the lead and infobox indicate. Anyway, once that information is clearly indicated in the body, I think you can remove all citations from the infobox because all that info is already cited in the body.

• Done

Summary: Everything in the works cited list are either books held by university libraries (with the semi-exception of Ayres, per comment above) or articles in academic journals. The inline citations includes a few other sources, which all seem reliable. There's an impressive breadth of scholarship and journalism represented in this article for how short it is. Earwig finds plagiarism unlikely. Most of the similarities it can find are quotes. Citations are consistently formatted with the exception of minor issues, outlined above. Overall, the sources look great and I think all the issues above are very fixable. Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:22, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Dugan Murphy: I think that I've addressed all of your concerns above, although I have a few questions about the comments you left about Leopold's source, Template:Poem quote, and "Find Clue to Missing Monument". This is a very impressive review and thank you for taking the time to do it! ‍Relativity ⚡️ 00:51, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No problem. I'm happy to see articles about esoteric history markers being improved. I've responded to a few things that still need work. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:19, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for fixing a few more things. At this point, I think the only thing holding back this source review from passing is the Randall 1990 page range issue above. Dugan Murphy (talk) 12:03, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great work with this article, Relativity! I see no other issues holding back this source review from passing. I have an FAC nomination of my own that needs more attention. If you are able to take a look, I would appreciate it. You'll find it here. Dugan Murphy (talk) 12:54, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SC - Support

A marker for now. - SchroCat (talk) 16:55, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "The most accepted version of Arnold's contributions,[2] supported by Arnold biographer James Kirby Martin,[3] is that he led troops on the battlefield." The references here are in an odd position. Ref two is only supporting the first seven words of the sentence, while the final eight words are not supported by either of the citations that are supporting it. It would be better to move both to the end of the sentence where they will be supporting everything they need to.

• Done

• "Arnold to start making communications with": This is a bit clunky. Would "Arnold started to communicate with" be an improvement?

• I'm not sure. It sounds a bit odd with the "caused" in front. I changed it to "caused Arnold to start communicating with" though— let me know your thoughts

• "These troubles, along with the fact that his wife, Peggy Shippen, came from a family of Loyalists, caused Arnold to start making communications with the British army, with British general Sir Henry Clinton finally offering Arnold £20,000 (equivalent to £3,353,000 in 2023) for the capture of West Point,[11] a fortification that was important to the control of the Hudson River" This is a monster sentence of sixty words. There are a few places where it could be split in two, but I think that after "British army" would be the best place for a full stop.

• Fixed

• You have "British general" Clinton but "British Major" Andre – consistent formatting would be good

• Fixed— capitalized "General"

• "July of 1882": just "July 1882" would be more in line with the MOS

• Fixed

• Caption of "The Boot Monument from the back": "The reverse of the Boot Monument" may be a bit better?

• Changed

• "It never mentions Arnold": ->"It does not mention Arnold". Even better would be to reframe the whole sentence as "Because of Arnold's defection to the British it does not mention him by name"

• Reframed

• "(see damnatio memoriae)": Dropping a Latin tag, unexplained, in brackets into the prose isn't the best way to deal with it. Either inline ("in an example of damnatio memoriae—Latin for "condemnation of memory"—etc") or include as a footnote.
• Additionally, if it's in Latin, you should use a ... template, which also has the benefit of italicising it
• "Similarly to how Arnold's name does not appear on the Boot Monument because of his betrayal to the British side, the Saratoga" is a bit cumbersome and wordy: "As with the absence of Arnold's name from the Boot monument, the Saratoga" would be better for readers. Again, the two references are floating in the middle of the sentence, not supporting the final part of the sentence - probably best to move them to the end of the sentence.

• Fixed

An interesting piece. I hope these help. - SchroCat (talk) 15:52, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @SchroCat: Definitely helped. Thank you for giving it a read! I had one minor qualm with your second point, but otherwise, all is resolved (I hope). ‍Relativity ⚡️ 02:50, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support All good from me. - SchroCat (talk) 06:02, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spotcheck

Spot-checking this revision:* 6 Can't access this source, but going by commons:Template:PD-US-expired it should be out of copyright, which means that a) you might want to link to a free version, or as Google Books to make its version public and b) is it that good of a source if it's this old?

• I linked to a different Google Books version, which has a free pdf of the book. On the age standpoint of the source, there are other sources in the article that are of a similar or slightly older age, so I'm hesitant to remove it, but I can probably replace it. Let me take a look...

• So I've looked through many sources and I was unable to find a source that supports the fact that Gates' orders reached Arnold after the battle had ended.

Seems like the emailed version checks out.

• 9 Can't access this source.
• 10 Can't access this source.
• 19 Doesn't say he was a major general of the New York State Militia.

• I couldn't find a reliable source that said specifically that he was a major general of the New York State militia, so I altered the text slightly and supported it with a source that was already in use.

• 20 Doesn't say that de Peyster was a historian.

• Added source; see above

• 22 OK
• 23 OK
• 25 Google Books supports most, save for 1975.
• 26 Google Books supports.
• 27 OK
• 31 Partly supported by the Google Books snippet.
• 32 OK
• 35 OK

* 37 Can't access this source.

• 39 OK
• 41 Is two-stars = major general?

• The two-star part is actually supported by citation 42, so I moved citations 40 and 41 to where citation 42 is located. To answer your question, yes, two-star does mean major general, so I've clarified that.

• 42 OK

* 44 Can't access this source.

• 47 Can't access this source.
• 49 Can't access this source.

By the by, I don't think that the New York Times requires an ISSN.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @Jo-Jo Eumerus: I think that I've addressed everything you brought up here, unless I've missed something. Thank you for doing the spotcheck! ‍Relativity ⚡️ 04:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Um, yeah, I wasn't clear - the sources I can't access also need to be verified. That means that either a) an uninvolved editor with access checks them or b) you send me copies of the pages questioned. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Jo-Jo Eumerus: So slight problem. I don't have email enabled, and I don't know how else to send you some of the sources which would be tricky to get access to. What do you suggest I do? ‍Relativity ⚡️ 03:33, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I've seen people using them on temporary Google Drives and then post a link. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Bit the bullet and added an email on file. Working... ‍Relativity ⚡️ 03:55, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Five Nights at Freddy's: Help Wanted

Nominator(s): Fathoms Below (talk) 20:37, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a virtual reality game released as part of the Five Nights at Freddy's franchise. Last year after I helped promote the original game to FA status, I've been curious on whether another FA could be made with this franchise. This game probably has the best chance overall. In summary, Help Wanted adapts the first five games in the series in an anthology format, while also including some new minigames. So let's see what we can do here. Fathoms Below (talk) 20:37, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vacant0

Will review. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 10:44, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Add translated titles for Ref 1, 3, 6, 8, 26
• Change Ref 22 website to UploadVR

Done second point, @Vacant0, is there a specific policy requiring the translation of the source titles? Just curious, because I'm not sure if that would be required. My previous FACs used a few non-English sources and I wasn't asked to translate the titles. Fathoms Below (talk) 18:12, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not aware of one, but I might be wrong. I know that there's a policy about foreign quotations, but not foreign titles. I was told to add translated titles at a GA review some time ago, so I've been doing it since then. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 18:17, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I checked around at some pertinent policies and guidelines (WP:NOENG, and WP:FOOTQUOTE) and it seems like translating the titles into English is not required, though quotes not in English should be translated to English. I might ask around and see if translating the titles to English is preferable or if they should be kept as-is. Fathoms Below (talk) 18:29, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine then. I do not see it is an issue that should bar the article from becoming FA. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 21:19, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The prose is relatively short so I'll go through and read, and leave any recommendations if I spot any. If the article does not receive a source check, you can ping me and I'll do that too. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 21:20, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Help Wanted is a virtual reality survival horror game" – It's up to you, but I'd change Help Wanted to Five Nights at Freddy's: Help Wanted.

Done

• Optionally wikilink virtual reality (it's already wikilinked in the lede, so why not do it in the body too?)

Done

• Add (VR) as the abbreviation of virtual reality in the same first sentence.

Done

• Jump scare is wikilinked twice. Remove the second wikilink.

Done

• Possibly explain the warped graphics element.

The reviewer says "distorted visuals" and there isn't much that I could find that went into detail on the graphics.

• Who published the game?

Scott Cawthon via his company ScottGames. I'll add that to the infobox

• I'll look at the lede and reception tomorrow.
• There's not too much information about the sequel, so per WP:VGLAYOUT it can stay where it is right now under the Reception section.
• Lede: The downloadable content called Curse of Dreadbear.

reworded

• Reception:
  • I personally feel like the wording could be slightly improved.

A lot of the sources weren't in English and it was hard to summarize their thoughts. This section was the one that I thought might need some extra eyes

I'll have a deeper look in the next few days and leave some comments that could improve the section. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 10:50, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • "UploadVR called it a worthy adaptation or the franchise's games" I assume this is a typo.

Done

• • IGN Italy should be italicised.

Done

• • "the power of the jumpscares"?

Should I change it to "effectiveness"?

Yes, that sounds better. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 10:50, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • "Some reviewers called the jumpscares effective, but said that they would become repetitive over time" – remove said

Done

• • Optionally move "The game was nominated for the Coney Island Dreamland Award for Best AR/VR Game at the New York Game Awards in 2020." to the first paragraph.

Done

• • Do we have reception for the sequel?

Metacritic lists only one review for the sequel from UploadVR. Should I include it?

Sure, why not. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 10:50, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find a great way to integrate the review to be honest. Is there a way you think I should add it somehow. Say something like "UploadVR called the game ___ and ___?" Just curious, I just want to make sure that I'm doing this right.

Vacant09, a few replies above. Fathoms Below (talk) 22:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll go paragraph by paragraph.

• The first paragraph does not have any issues.
• Second paragraph:
  • What do you mean by an "accessible" entry?

Easy to get into, especially for people unfamiliar to the franchise

• • "Destructoid felt that it would appease longtime fans and people unfamiliar with the series,[2] and The Games Machine said that it would appeal to players who were not fans of horror media through its simple mechanics" → "Destructoid saw that longtime fans and those unfamiliar with the series would be appeased with the game, while The Games Machine wrote that players previously not fans of the horror genre would be appeased because of its simple mechanics"

Reworded a little to be more in line with the source. Does this work?

Yes. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • "worthy adaptation"?

Decided to add a quote from the article instead. Does this look better?

Yes. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • "IGN Italy said that it was" – change to present tense

Done

• Third paragraph:
  • "UploadVR said the atmosphere was intriguing and increased the power of the jumpscares, writing that the virtual reality made the game feel immersive" → "UploadVR said the game's atmosphere was intriguing and increased the power of jumpscares, and that virtual reality made the game feel immersive"

Reworded. Does this work?

Yes. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 19:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• • effective, in what sense?

Effective at scaring the player

• Fourth paragraph:
  • I doubt that "the" is needed before "different minigames".

Reworded

• • "The Games Machine called the levels diverse"?

This was a tricky one, but I reworded it. Does the new version make sense? I think I got it more in line with what the reviewer was saying.

Yes, it sounds better. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 20:27, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Thanks for addressing my comments. Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 20:30, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from NegativeMP1

I've done work on every other game in the Five Nights at Freddy's series and conducted several source searches for this article before this FAC at the request of the nom (hell, we nearly co-nom'd), while also reading through it countless times. So knowing the subject matter and what all is out there, I firmly believe that this article clearly meets the FA criteria (though I did choose to wait for Vacant to finish his review before I supported), and I hope that this passes. λ NegativeMP1 07:15, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

For clarification, I am looking at this copy of the article for my source review. My comments are below:

• Nintendo Life should be linked in Citation 4. Even though it is a redirect, it would be helpful for readers. I'd also encourage you to link IGN Italia in Citation 6 rather than separating the website out by only linking IGN as the redirect would be more beneficial to readers.

Done

• Is there a reason why Citation 18 uses GamesRadar rather than GamesRadar+?

Changed as suggested

• Destructoid is not linked in Citation 21 even though it seems that the website/publisher is linked in every citation, such as Metacritic being linked in both Citations 24 and 25. Destructoid should be linked in Citation 21 to keep everything consistent with the formatting.

Done

• Titles for non-English citations need a translation. I am seeing this with Citations 1, 3, 6, 8, and 26, but all of the citations should be double-checked to make sure that this is fully addressed.

Translated all the titles I think

Apologies for not being clearer with this one. The original title should be included alongside a translation. You would use the |trans-title= parameter in the citation for that. Just to be clear, the citation should have the original non-English title alongside the English translation (i.e. it should not be a replacement of one for the other). Aoba47 (talk) 23:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• It may be helpful to link European Spanish in the relevant citations. It may just be me, but I have never heard of this phrasing before, and while I obviously get it from context, it may be helpful for readers to have some avenue to look into it further.

Done

You can disregard this one as I do not think such linking works with how the template is set up. Aoba47 (talk) 23:02, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Shouldn't the "Sequel" subsection briefly cover the reviews/critical consensus for the sequel?

There sadly isn't a critical consensus on the sequel (no review scores for OpenCritic or Metacritic) so although numerous websites report on the existence of the sequel, I sadly wasn't able to summarize a critical consensus

That makes sense. Thank you for the clarification. Aoba47 (talk) 23:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• This is not required for a FAC/FA, but I would strongly encourage you to archive your web citations to avoid any potential headaches in the future. It seems like most of the citations are archived, but I am bringing this up as Citation 34 is not.

Will do that real quick

• Citation 3 shows for me a publication date of March 14, 2021 rather than March 15, 2021. I know that sometimes depending on where the person accesses a site, the publication date can vary by a day or so. Could you double-check this one for me?

That looks right, fixed

• The "Reception" box in the "Reception" section should list IGN Italia to be more specific and clarify that this review and score were not done by the main IGN website. This should also be clarified in the prose as well (and it should be consistently IGN Italia with IGN Italy removed).

Done

• For the final paragraph of the "Reception" section, I would match the Kotaku and Nintendo Life citations to the appropriate sentences rather than lumping them together at the end. Nintendo Life should also be linked on the first instance in the prose.

Done

• All of the citations are reliable and high-quality and in my opinion, they are appropriate for a potential FA on a video game. I used WP:VG/RS to double-check things and I did not notice any issues.
• I did a brief spot-check to make sure the information is supported in the citations. Citation 2 is being used to support a part on "Night Terrors", but I do not see that phrase in the article. I do see a discussion on a similar mechanic known as "Dark Rooms". Is that what is being referenced?

Yeah I think that was a mistake on my part, I must have confused Dark Rooms with another minigame in Help Wanted with similar mechanics called Night Terrors. Fixed.

• Citation 14 is being used to support a part on the delay in the game's release, but I do not see that discussed in the actual source. I see that citation talks about the April 2019 release, but I do not see any mention of a delay unless I am missing it.

Missed that too. I rephrased it to say that it was planned for release in April, but was initially launched in May. Should I look for another source to confirm the delay if possible?

The current wording should be fine. It is pretty clear that some sort of delay took place as the announced release date did not end up happening. You could look for another source to add the "delay" wording back in the article, but I do not think it is really necessary. Aoba47 (talk) 23:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I hope that this review is helpful and best of luck with the FAC. Aoba47 (talk) 20:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aoba47, thanks for the review. A few replies above. Fathoms Below (talk) 22:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything. I have left a few comments above. Aoba47 (talk) 23:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47 follow-up to the above. Added the translated title parameters. Again, thanks for the review! Fathoms Below (talk) 15:11, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything. This passes my source review. I have a quick side question, but does anything from this game tie into the next one (i.e. Five Nights at Freddy's: Security Breach)? Again, this question is more so for me as I am curious and does not affect my review at all. Aoba47 (talk) 16:01, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not much ties into the next game. Although the plot of all the games and books is loosely connected, the most Help Wanted ties into Security Breach (without getting into excessive detail) is the teaser at the end with the Christmas tree farm and building that is under construction. Fathoms Below (talk) 18:09, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That makes sense. Thank you for the response. Aoba47 (talk) 20:52, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:20, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have added some alt text @Nikkimaria. Anything else needed? Thanks, Fathoms Below (talk) 12:17, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for the image review. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:47, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Joe

Forthcoming JOEBRO64 00:24, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

TheJoebro64 are you still planning on reviewing this article? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 17:28, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yeah, have some notes. Should post them later tonight. JOEBRO64 19:06, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• ... a sequel, Five Nights at Freddy's: Help Wanted 2, was released on December 14, 2023. → Five Nights at Freddy's: Help Wanted 2, was released on December 14, 2023. My general advice is that you don't need to tell the reader something called [Title] 2 is a sequel to [Title]. Readers aren't stupid! I think you can bin "a sequel".

Done

• I think you need to provide sources for the last two paragraphs of the plot section, as I think things like talking about the differences between endings and a change that was made post-launch are the kind of things that go beyond a "straightforward summary" as outlined in WP:VG/PLOT.

I can't find any reliable sources for the endings (the best I could find was a brief mention for the endings of the non-notable Help Wanted 2) I think VGPLOT is saying that sources should be required for any conclusions that must be determined through interpretation, and while I would have liked having some sources for the events of each ending, I don't think there is much that I can do in this case. There are some plot sections in video game FAs that have multiple endings but use only the game as a primary source. However, I can remove the change that was made post-launch with the Christmas tree farm.

• Based on how it's written, I'm not really sure if the stuff about the promo artwork using fan art on accident is necessary. I think it'd be different if it was something within the game itself and/or it impacted the game's long-term reception in the press, but this kind of marketing slip-up isn't really unheard of. If there's more context that could be integrated from the book in question I think that'd be good.

I couldn't find much else in the book, and I could remove that bit if you would like. I just wanted to be comprehensive and it showed up in an academic book, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to include.

• I would try to condense the third paragraph of development and release, as it falls into WP:PROSELINE territory as currently written. Here's something you could do:
  • Current: A Nintendo Switch port was released on May 21, 2020. A port for Oculus Quest was released on July 16, 2020, followed by versions for Android and iOS on October 26. An Xbox One port was released on October 29, 2020.
  • Revised: Ports for other consoles and headsets followed throughout 2020, including for Nintendo Switch on May 21, Oculus Quest on July 16, Android and iOS on October 26, and Xbox One on October 29.

Done, good catch

• In the sequel section, if the game managed to be released on its initially announced release date, then there's no need to state when the date was announced.
  • Current: On May 24, 2023, during a PlayStation Showcase, Steel Wool Studios announced Five Nights at Freddy's: Help Wanted 2, with a planned launch in late 2023. A PlayStation Blog post by Steel Wool Studios on November 20, 2023, announced a release for PlayStation VR2 on December 14, 2023, and disclosed many of the minigames. The game was launched on that date for Oculus Quest and PlayStation VR2.
  • Revised: On May 24, 2023, during a PlayStation Showcase, Steel Wool Studios announced Five Nights at Freddy's: Help Wanted 2. It was released on December 14, 2023, for Oculus Quest and PlayStation VR2.

Will fix soon

• Also, I think you should fill us in on some details regarding the sequel. What's new?

I think I could include a bit on the endings that I found earlier, I will do an extra check to make sure I didn't miss anything important.

• Reference spotchecks forthcoming.

Aoba47 did a few earlier, but you can check again if you would like.

JOEBRO64 03:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Joe for your comments! A few replies above. I'll finish the last couple shortly and then work on Donkey Kong. Sorry for the delay, I just returned to admin work and it's been eating up my time that I would otherwise spend on content. Fathoms Below (talk) 16:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

750h

lead

• that unlock collectable objects ==> "that unlock collectible objects" ("collectible" is preferred in American English)

Done

• studio's adaptation, and decided remove the comma

Done

• as first released on May 28, 2019 for Windows through Oculus Rift add a comma after "2019" per MOS:COMMA

Done

gameplay

• to obtain collectable objects ==> "to obtain collectible objects"

Done

plot

• In an attempt to improve their image, Fazbear Entertainment ==> "In an attempt to improve its image, Fazbear Entertainment". In American English "its" is more standard for singular entities like a company.

Done

• urban legends, before cutting remove the comma

Done

• Following the release of the non-VR versions of the game, a door in a final ==> "Following the release of the non-VR versions of the game, a door at the final"

Done

development and release

• be replaced afterwards ==> "be replaced afterward"

Done

• released on October 23, 2020 and additional add a comma after "2020"

Done

reception

• Wool Studios on November 20, 2023 announced the game's release for PlayStation VR2 on December 14, 2023 and disclosed add a comma after both of the dates.

Done

That's all I got @Fathoms Below:. Nice work on the article. 750h+ 08:33, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again 750h+, I believe that I have addressed your comments. Fathoms Below (talk) 18:42, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to support. 750h+ 00:47, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Crisco

• Would be nice for the lede to have how many games were adapted (average reader isn't going to know how many there were in the series at that point). Seems to be missing in the body too
• the player controls a user for the "Freddy Fazbear Virtual Experience", - A user for the, or of the?
• Meant as a warning for players, they are covertly recorded by one of the playtesters, who exposes a lawsuit involving a past employee of Fazbear Entertainment, Jeremy, that put the game's completion in jeopardy. - Meant to warn players in our reality, or the player character?
• Any sources saying why there was a delay?
• Any Metacritic/other aggregator data for PC and Oculus Rift?
• Is Help Wanted 2 worth redlinking?

That's it from me.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:50, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yugoslav torpedo boat T6

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

T6 was a dinky little steam-driven torpedo boat that started life as an Austro-Hungarian vessel. She saw extensive service in the Adriatic Sea in the latter stages of WWI, performing convoy, escort, patrol and minesweeping tasks, and anti-submarine operations. After WWI she was taken over by the new South Slav state, the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes – which was renamed Yugoslavia in 1929. She was captured by the Italians during the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia in April 1941, and despite her age the Italians put her to good use on coastal and second-line escort duties in the Adriatic. When the Italians capitulated in September 1943, her crew tried to reach an Allied port, but scuttled her when this proved impossible. This article is part of the 36-article Featured topic, Ships of the Royal Yugoslav Navy, that I am slowing improving to the point where every article and list is Featured (I'm about two-thirds of the way there). Have at it! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Yugoslav torpedo boat T3.jpg - a reprint of the source just credits the image to "Photo, Official" - could you please explain where the indication is that this is a British official photo, rather than a Yugoslav one?

The answer to this is with reference to the captions of photographs of RN ships in the same book, which have exactly the same annotation, "Photo, Official", whereas French ships for example, have "French Navy, Official" (see page 139 for an example of the latter). I consider it is entirely reasonable to assume that because it does not say "Yugoslav Navy, Official", but uses the same annotation as RN vessels, that it was taken by a RN source (probably the naval attache, or by a RN ship on a show the flag visit). Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will also note that the caption doesn't quite work right now - it's technically unsourced since the distinction is never made in this article that T-3 was of the T type instead of the F type. The same source this image is from does include a photo of one of the two-funnel models of these torpedo boats, but it's of much lower quality so I can understand why it is not used. Hog Farm _Talk 23:01, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it is necessary to cite the fact that T3 was a T-group boat as it is very unlikely to be challenged. I could add it and a citation to the caption if you think it is necessary, but it seems like overkill to me. An explanation of the distinction is made per "The F-group had two funnels rather than the single funnel of the T-group" under Description and construction. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Hog Farm. See what you think of my responses above. Thanks so much for having a look! Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay - passing on the image review. Hog Farm _Talk 13:33, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sammi Brie

Solid article. Paragraphs and sentences occasionally need splitting, and I have some thoughts on commas. Ping me when all of this is handled. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

• she was armed with two 66 mm (2.6 in) guns and four 450 mm (17.7 in) torpedo tubes, and could carry 10–12 naval mines One subject: "she". Remove the comma. WP:CINS

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:30, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Background:

• Would a paragraph split be useful?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:30, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• In such circumstances, there would be a need for a torpedo boat that could sail from the Austro-Hungarian Navy (German: kaiserliche und königliche Kriegsmarine, Hungarian: Császári és Királyi Haditengerészet) base at the Bocche di Cattaro (the Bocche or Bay of Kotor) to the strait during the night, locate and attack blockading ships and return to port before morning. Consider converting the translation note to a footnote to improve readability in this complex sentence.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• as diesels with the necessary power were not available, and the Austro-Hungarian Navy did not have the practical experience to run turbo-electric boats Remove comma as this is part of one clause.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Description and construction:

• The 250t-class F-group boats had short raised forecastles and an open bridge, and were fast and agile Remove comma CinS

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I'd recommend splitting the first paragraph unless it is like this in other articles of the FT.

Good point, it has become larger over time as more material has become available, and is now a bit unwieldy. I have reorganised it a bit, then split it. See what you think? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• with the forward gun mounted on the forecastle, and the aft gun on the quarterdeck Remove comma
• with one pair mounted between the forecastle and bridge, and the other aft of the mainmast Remove comma

Both done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• 93 F was laid down on 9 January 1915, launched on 25 November, and commissioned on 4 April 1916 Remove comma after 25 November to be consistent with this article's non-use of serial comma. (There is one serial comma later that is fine because of the complexity of the phrase)

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Career:

• The original concept of operation for the 250t-class boats was that they would sail in a flotilla at the rear of a cruising battle formation, and were to intervene Remove comma

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• On 29 October she underwent Comma after "29 October" for consistency with the other date prepositional clauses in this paragraph

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• In June, 93, along with 96, and Csikós and her sister ships Wildfang and Velebit were try the comma order In June, 93, along with 96 as well as Csikós and her sister ships Wildfang and Velebit, were

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• During 1917, 93 conducted further minesweeping missions, and escorted 36 convoys. Remove comma before "and" (CinS). Think of it this way. Is the part after the conjunction a standalone sentence conceivably? Not "Escorted 36 convoys.".

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• of Pag, but had to terminate Remove comma.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• On 20 August, 93 was transferred to the Bocche, and was part of the 1st Torpedo Flotilla Remove comma (CinS)

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• On 29 September, 93 along with 82, 87 and 96, and the Ersatz Triglav-class destroyers Lika, Dukla and Uzsok try On 29 September, 93 along with 82, 87 and 96 plus the Ersatz Triglav-class destroyers Lika, Dukla and Uzsok,

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• As the end of the war approached in November and the Austro-Hungarian Empire broke apart, on 1 November 93 was ceded to the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs Restructure so "1 November 93" is not stuck together and could be mistaken for a date. Splitting the description of the SSCS into its own sentence ("This was...") will help.

I think I have addressed this, perhaps not exactly as you envisaged. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Skradin where the population begged them to leave the harbour to avoid the town being bombed by the Italians. Add comma after Skradin for readability

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• In response, Kern ordered T6 to escort Perun to the Bay of Kotor, and the two vessels arrived there the next day without incident, where T6's malfunctioning gun was repaired and she was loaded with weapons, supplies and extra men and sent to Šibenik. Split this sentence: In response, Kern ordered T6 to escort Perun to the Bay of Kotor; the two vessels arrived there the next day without incident. There, T6's malfunctioning gun was repaired; she was loaded with weapons, supplies and extra men and sent to Šibenik.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• the Axis puppet fascist state, the Independent State of Croatia (NDH) try the Independent State of Croatia (NDH), an Axis puppet fascist state

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• T6's commander, a Slovene, was not interested in serving in a Croatian navy, and abandoned Remove comma after "navy" CinS

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• join NDH navy missing "the"

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Sammi Brie, all done I reckon. See what you think? Thanks for taking a look, apologies for the delay in addressing your comments. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Happy to Support after taking a look. My issues are rectified. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:32, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Pendright

Placeholder - Pendright (talk) 03:10, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PM - I seem to be awash in projects, so for now I'm wiggling out of this one—my apology. Pendright (talk) 23:20, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

Hi Peacemaker67, my comments:

• Why have we not linked to the Skoda 7 cm gun article in the lead when we have linked to it in the infobox?

Good question. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "...Schwarzlose M.7/12 machine gun carried for anti-aircraft work": prefix "carried" with "was" for grammatical accuracy?

Wow, not sure how that got through previous reviews... Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• In the WWI subsection, "the naval historian Zvonimir Freivogel" is too long, just "Freivogel" may bw enough since he was introduced just two paragraphs ago.

Ah yes, fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Link to Brijuni islands?

It is already piped to the Fasana Channel, but no harm in linking directly. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Link to Strojne Tovarne (Iskra)?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• How exactly did the ship make a good impression in Malta? Was it the sailors' conduct, the ship's power or something else?

Presumably the sailor's conduct and the appearance of the ship. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Link to Zablaće (Šabac) or Zablaće (Čačak), whichever one the source is referring to?

It's neither, both those villages are landlocked ones in Serbia. This is a different place, a village on the coast of Croatia. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "so took the": "so he took the"?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "join NDH navy": "join the NDH navy"?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• In the biblio, link to Norman Friedman and Velimir Terzić?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Add 44888337 as the JSTOR ID for Vego 1982?

I'm not a huge fan of adding extra identifiers, the task is to enable verification, not provide every possible option to access it. Unless the MoS has changed and it is now mandatory, I'll stick to one I think. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• As an aside, would you be ok with adding DOIs for the books? These enable easier access than ISBNs and I faintly recall that there is an MOS on providing as many access options as possible. If you do wish to, then Djukanović 2023 and Ramet 2006 do have DOIs available.

See my response above. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's all from me, will do a source review soon. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 09:14, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Matarisvan. See what you think of my responses above. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding my support, will do spot checks soon. Matarisvan (talk) 06:32, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67, I will not be doing the spot checks since Jo-Jo is already doing a source review. I would suggest you get a review from @Nigel Ish, who's a subject matter expert on ships. Matarisvan (talk) 15:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment

Going into five weeks and this nom hasn't garnered a single support. Unless it receives several further in depth reviews over the next week or so it's most likely going to be archived. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 18:57, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peacemaker67, any progress on the reviews above and below? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 19:11, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Crisco 1492

• Reserving a spot.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:29, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• They were the first small Austro-Hungarian Navy boats to use turbines, - Previous sentence had "Austro-Hungarian Navy", which may be misunderstood as "They". Perhaps "The 250t class"?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• On 11 May 1917, 93 F, 96 F and 78 T, accompanied by the Huszár-class destroyer Csikós, unsuccessfully pursued the British submarine HMS H1 after the submarine had stalked 78 T off Pola, missing her with two torpedoes. - Feels like this could be simplified. Perhaps "after the submarine had fired two torpedoes at 78 T"?

Have had a crack at simplifying, see what you think now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Bojana river - As a proper noun, shouldn't this be Bojana River? Same with Brijuni islands and Istrian peninsula

Done. Not sure how that happened. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• World War I - Question... I thought World War I was preferred in American English, with First World War preferred in British English.

It's written in Australian English, and we don't mind (both are used). Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• When the navy was formed, she and the other seven 250t-class boats were the only modern sea-going vessels in the KM - Would "were its only modern sea-going vessels" work better?

Sure, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm not seeing consistency in your use of the Oxford comma.

It really isn't consistent in Australia, the government style guide says only to use it when ambiguity is created by its absence. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Bay of Kotor - You referred to it as Bocche earlier. Why the shift?

Change of usage over time. Generally the Italian usage was most common in WWI, but in Yugoslav times, it was referred to as the Bay of Kotor. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, the prose is quite tight. Well done! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Chris. Sorry about the delay. See what you think of my responses. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Looks good. Thank you! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 13:31, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley

• "second-line escort duties". What does "second-line" mean here? This needs explaining.

Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I cannot see an explanation. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I've separated and clarified the explanation. See what you think. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "Kraljevska Mornarica, KM". Not "Kraljevska Mornarica (KM)"?

Well, it's already in parens, and the semicolon associates them sufficiently, IMHO. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "New torpedo tubes of the same size". Presumably the same as the old ones but this should be clarified.

Correct, added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "accompanied the light cruiser Dalmacija, the submarine tender Hvar and the submarines Hrabri and Nebojša". New KM ships? As you say above that originally there were only eight ships in the KM navy you should clarify.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I find the second paragraph of WWII confusing. Šibenik Command was presumably a naval command of the NDH, so why should it need to be evacuated and why did Italy capture the boats of its Fascist ally?

It is the KM Šibenik Command (added). The Italians did not approve of the NDH having a navy, and the Germans acquiesced in this until the Italians surrendered in September 1943. Do you think I need to explain this? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• "but T6 was captured by the Italians along with the other boats of the division". Maybe "but the Italians opposed NDH having a navy and they captured the boats of the division including T6". Dudley Miles (talk) 15:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks, yes. Good idea, done, and added a citation for the Italian opposition. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• There is a CS1 maint error notice on the Freivogel ref. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:14, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure of what this is? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The message on the last Freivogel source is "CS1 maint: ignored ISBN errors". Dudley Miles (talk) 15:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Jo-Jo identified this too, and I discovered I had reversed two numbers. Should be fixed now. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Dudley. See what you think of my responses. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, should be good to go now, Dudley. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:27, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Looks fine now. Dudley Miles (talk) 08:41, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Форматирование источника кажется последовательным. 978-953-366-036-9 выдает ошибку ISBN. Есть ли логика в использовании Google Books для некоторых источников, OCLC и ISBN для других? Ни один из источников не кажется неподходящим. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk ) 11:17, 2 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]

Привет, Jo-Jo Eumerus , спасибо, что посмотрели. Каким-то образом я перепутал два числа. Теперь, я надеюсь, исправил. Что касается Google Books и т. д., я обычно использую Google Books, если книга доступна в предварительном просмотре и ссылка может помочь с проверкой, и всегда использую OCLC или ISBN\ISSN для каждой длинной цитаты. Я не могу сказать, что я большой поклонник добавления OCLC и ISBN, мне кажется, это излишество. Обычно я использую ту систему, которая была на момент публикации, долгое время югославские книги имели только OCLC, и обе книги OCLC являются югославскими. Привет, Peacemaker67 ( нажмите, чтобы поговорить со мной ) 11:10, 12 ноября 2024 (UTC) [ ответить ]